- Joined
- 15 Sep 04
- Moves
- 7051
Now time for a non-evolution, [hopefully] non-anatgonistic thread.
Is there any evidence that Jesus' death on the cross saved further generations and not just the people of his time?
I understand that the early church believed that Christ would return very soon in the parousia. However, later generation decided that Jesus' second coming seemed to be delaying and hence extended his salvation to future christians.
I'm not trying to rile people up. So don't come out attacking me.
Acts 2:
36. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Revelation 7
9. After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
13. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14. And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
…and these are just the Tribulation saints, not counting those that lived between Acts 2 and Rev. 7.
Also, don’t forget about the Old testament saints who were saved by faith because they believed God.
Originally posted by Conrau KAn interesting question which I may try to research over the long weekend.
Now time for a non-evolution, [hopefully] non-anatgonistic thread.
Is there any evidence that Jesus' death on the cross saved further generations and not just the people of his time?
I understand that the early church believed that Christ would return very soon in the parousia. However, later generation decided that Jesus' second coming seemed to be d ...[text shortened]... to future christians.
I'm not trying to rile people up. So don't come out attacking me.
It's all too easy to assume these things without knowing the basis for them. I suspect there are some 'once for all time' kind of statements in the Bible, but I can't locate one off the top of my head.
Originally posted by Conrau KIs there any reliable evidence that Jesus existed?
Now time for a non-evolution, [hopefully] non-anatgonistic thread.
Is there any evidence that Jesus' death on the cross saved further generations and not just the people of his time?
I understand that the early church believed that Christ would return very soon in the parousia. However, later generation decided that Jesus' second coming seemed to be d ...[text shortened]... to future christians.
I'm not trying to rile people up. So don't come out attacking me.
No.
Originally posted by howardgeeIs there any reason to attempt to totally derail the thread so early?
Is there any reliable evidence that Jesus existed?
No.
No.
Is it possible to debate within the parameters of the thread, regardless of whether or not you believe that Jesus did actually die on a cross?
Yes.
Originally posted by howardgeeThe Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (37 - circa 100). wrote an eye-witness to of Jewish history of the period. In Rome, in the year 93, Josephus published his history of the Jews. While discussing the period in which the Jews of Judaea were governed by Pontius Pilate, Josephus included the following account:
Is there any reliable evidence that Jesus existed?
No.
About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.
Originally posted by Conrau Kthe book of thessalonians addresses this some. they (the thessalonians), because of the immenence of Christ's return, decided to separate themselves from their culture and just wait. paul told them that a lot of things need to happen first and that they should busy themselves loving God and loving their neighbor. now as to what should happen, that's a rediculously large debate among christians (and those who claim to be for personal gain). but yes there appears to be evidence that until Christ's return, Christians should busy themselves with loving God and loving their neighbor. therefore, since Chirst hasn't returned yet, and because ALL the early christians are, well, dead, then i think it is safe to assume that the blood of Christ is still valid today to redeem people.
Now time for a non-evolution, [hopefully] non-anatgonistic thread.
Is there any evidence that Jesus' death on the cross saved further generations and not just the people of his time?
I understand that the early church believed that Christ would return very soon in the parousia. However, later generation decided that Jesus' second coming seemed to be d ...[text shortened]... to future christians.
I'm not trying to rile people up. So don't come out attacking me.
Originally posted by HalitoseLOL. Even secular networks like the history channel and such do shows on the life of Jesus. I can't say that I have met to many people that actually believed he did not exist.
Don't tell me you actually examined the evidence. That would be so unbecoming of your vocation. 😞
Originally posted by Conrau KYou are correct in that many in the early church believed that Christ would return soon. No date was given them for his return and they were instructed to remain vigilant for his return. I believe that not giving a time line was intentional on the part of Christ for a good reason. What that reason is, is that his return occurs once your life ends. At least this is true from the perspective of the person who dies. Be ready for physical death wihich can overtake at any time. Then once you die, be ready for resurrection. It will happen sooner than we imagine.
Now time for a non-evolution, [hopefully] non-anatgonistic thread.
Is there any evidence that Jesus' death on the cross saved further generations and not just the people of his time?
I understand that the early church believed that Christ would return very soon in the parousia. However, later generation decided that Jesus' second coming seemed to be d ...[text shortened]... to future christians.
I'm not trying to rile people up. So don't come out attacking me.
- Joined
- 15 Sep 04
- Moves
- 7051
Originally posted by Big MacThere is evidence in the scriptures that Jesus did not have foreknowledge. And all the scripture that says Jesus did save us is Paulian written years after Jesus. I guess then did Jesus know he was saving the rest of mankind?
the book of thessalonians addresses this some. they (the thessalonians), because of the immenence of Christ's return, decided to separate themselves from their culture and just wait. paul told them that a lot of things need to happen first and that they should busy themselves loving God and loving their neighbor. now as to what should happen, that's a redicu ...[text shortened]... i think it is safe to assume that the blood of Christ is still valid today to redeem people.
Originally posted by Conrau KI guess then did Jesus know he was saving the rest of mankind?
There is evidence in the scriptures that Jesus did not have foreknowledge. And all the scripture that says Jesus did save us is Paulian written years after Jesus. I guess then did Jesus know he was saving the rest of mankind?
Mat 20:28 [Jesus said:] Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.