Originally posted by sonhouse
He was a drunkard and lady killer, wouldn't that get him there? Would god take in to account his world class music?

Well if you mean a burning hell, no. He's in the grave where he was burried awaiting a resurrection to be judged.

Originally posted by galveston75
Well if you mean a burning hell, no. He's in the grave where he was burried awaiting a resurrection to be judged.

So during this resurrection, would they all be judged at once or would they have to wait in line? How many people do you suppose will be judged?

Originally posted by sonhouse
He was a drunkard and lady killer, wouldn't that get him there? Would god take in to account his world class music?

As a young boy I remember after hearing a long playing album of Brahms' First Symphony suddenly understanding the music. The first few times to my young mind it was probably just a ocean of orchestra sound. Then one day, I heard that record again, and I understood it.

"Oh, that is the melody. And that is a kind of elaboration on the melody doing various things with it. My, that is marvelous. I actually understand what this music is about now."

I just sunk in to my pre-adolescent mind after a few hearings. I remember wanting such a marvelous thing to live forever. I hoped that that music would never fade away from human memory.

Many years latter I discovered that there was something more valuable, more precious, and of greater worth than all the monuments of mankind. That was the life of one Jesus Christ. I came to understand that man may exalt many things. And many things of man are indeed beautiful. But none are worthy to live forever as the Son of God.

We are justified through this One. We cannot justify ourselves before God based upon anything of our own merit. Jesus said -

"You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts; for that which is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God." (Luke 16:15)

Comparitively speaking, what men may exalt among themselves may be an abomination in the sight of God. Nothing of man's invention is as honorable as the life of the Son of God in His death and resurrection. And justification unto eternity is through believing into Him -

" ... the word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that is the word of the faith which we proclaim,

That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

For with the heart there is believing unto righteousness, and with the mouth there is confession unto salvation." (See Rom. 10:8b-10)

Only to stand before God clothed in the finished redemption of Jesus Christ will justify us for eternal salvation.

Some readers will immediately take this post in the wrong way, perhaps as a teaching on esceticism. That is the Christians should deny art, liturature, creativity as all abominable things. This is not a teaching on being a escetic. It is a teaching exposing that what man exalts in his culture in comparison to the One whom God has exalted, is no comparison.

I don't know that much about Mozart. But it is not his talent that will justify him or anyone else unto eternal life. It is being in Christ - believing into Christ - and owning as Lord the One whom God has raised from the dead.

This passage also became meaningful to me when I turned from all idols to the living God that nothing would replace God or usurp the place of God in my life -

"For Jehovah of hosts will have a day over everything proud and lofty,
And over everything lifted up that it may be abased;
Over all the cedars of Lebanon,
Which are lofty and lifted up,
And over all the oaks of Bashan;
And over all the lofty mountains,
And over all the hills that are lifted up;
Over every high tower,
And over every fortified wall;
Over all the ships of Tarshish,
And over all their pleasant artifacts.

And the haughtiness of the ordinary man will be humbled,
And the loftiness of the men of distinction will be abased;

But Jehovah alone will be exalted in that day.
And the idols will vanish completely. " ( See Isaiah 2:12-17)

The new heaven and earth that is coming will be headed up by the God-man Christ. Every leaf on every tree, every atom, every cloud, all works of man, are pleasnt artifacts of man, all works in nature or of man will point to this exalted Redeemer - the Son of God.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So during this resurrection, would they all be judged at once or would they have to wait in line? How many people do you suppose will be judged?

The Bible doesn't say how long it would take.
But death wipes away ones past sins and errors. God is capable to completely forgiving and forgeting ones past. So the judging will be after ones are resurrected and on how they respond to being alive again. If God sees they will not change after having this second chance, he may remove them in a quick manor in order to keep them from doing harm to the earth and to other humans as they once may have done.
And the Bible says ALL that are resurected will be judged according to the deads they do with this second chance.

This is a point that many miss when they complain about God killing so many in the past for their wrong doing.
They will get a second chance and without the influance of Satan who will be in the abyess and unable to influance anyone to do wrong.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So during this resurrection, would they all be judged at once or would they have to wait in line? How many people do you suppose will be judged?

God could judge a trillion people instantaneously at one time in one moment.

The record of each person's life infallibly recorded and reviewed back before each one.

For God to judge everyone at the same moment if He wished to, would be child's play to Him. I don't know how He will do it. I know He will do it.

Originally posted by jaywill
God could judge a trillion people instantaneously at one time in one moment.

The record of each person's life infallibly recorded and reviewed back before each one.

For God to judge everyone at the same moment if He wished to, would be child's play to Him. I don't know how He will do it. I know He will do it.

As far as I know, Mozart died a drunkard's death with no thought of Jesus. Wouldn't that guarantee he will go to hell?

Originally posted by sonhouse
As far as I know, Mozart died a drunkard's death with no thought of Jesus. Wouldn't that guarantee he will go to hell?

Not necessarily.

What we know about a man of history is often tainted by the beliefs and opinions of those who write history. How do I know what was going on in Mozart's heart ? I know it through perhaps biographers.

If a biographer is himself an agnostic, that writing of the life of a man may reflect the writer's own agnosticism. The converse is true. An over zealous evangelical may emphasize other aspects of a man's life.

As I said to you, I do not know that much about Mozart. Perhaps someone else knows more. There is a certain David Kavanaugh, a modern day composer and teacher, who has written some books on "The Spiritual Lives of Great Composers". I read some of it. But I found even some of it a little bit of a stretch.

I do not know very much about Mozart. Long ago I read that we don't even know what he looked like. Aside from a statue of him as a little boy playing the violin, I am not sure there is any portrait of Mozart painted which is not simply imaginative. I could even be wrong about that because that was decades ago I read that.

Don't ask me about the man's eternal destiny. I don't know and neither do I wish to judge him. I wrote to you, and I am not sure if you accepted it, Romans 10:9,11 concerning the belief in the heart and the confession in the mouth.

This passage is the apostolic teaching concerning how one shall be saved. It is not necessarily the end all of the normal Christian daily life in consecration. But it is not meant to be. How do I know that Mozart did or did not believe in his heart that God had raised Jesus his Lord, from the dead ? Probably his personal letters may tell you something. I simply do not know.

Have some backslidden believers in Jesus died in a pretty poor state of testimony ? Yes. Have some believers died in a state in which it was virtually impossible to distinguish their lifestyle from that of an unbeliever ? Sadly, but realistically, yes.

Should such be the case ? Of course not. But what is and what ought to be are not always the same.

Before the movie Amadeus came out and further sensationalized the life of this already successful composer, I, personally was never impressed with Mozart's alledged bad behavior.

I knew something of his friendship with Joseph Haydn. I knew something of his trouble with managing money and frequent evictions. I knew something of his phenomenal talent and memory. And I think I recall him dying during a epidemic of some kind in which people were buried in unmarked graves. I think he died a pauper. They may have thought his body deseased as thousands of others during that plague. Probably others know more about this.

But it was not until that movie Amadeus had I heard anyone make a big deal out of any rivalries Mozart had or his partying habits. It still seems to me to be more hype for sensationalism than anything else. But I have never read a biography of Mozart.

And again, biographies are often tainted by the beliefs of the biographers. So to read more than one to get different angles of a person's life, is really the more scholarly way to find out about them.

What is your point in all this ? The Gospel stands as the truth whether or not Mozart was saved or lost forever.

Originally posted by jaywill
Not necessarily.

What we know about a man of history is often tainted by the beliefs and opinions of those who write history. How do I know what was going on in Mozart's heart ? I know it through perhaps biographers.

If a biographer is himself an agnostic, that writing of the life of a man may reflect the writer's own agnosticism. The converse is ...[text shortened]... his ? The Gospel stands as the truth whether or not Mozart was saved or lost forever.

He is probably a myth and never really existed. The music we attribute to Mozart is probably of unknown origin from millions of years ago and some evolutionists just theorized that somebody name Mozart must of done it.

Originally posted by RJHinds
He is probably a myth and never really existed. The music we attribute to Mozart is probably of unknown origin from millions of years ago and some evolutionists just theorized that somebody name Mozart must of done it.

Now aren't you just being so cute.

Originally posted by sonhouse
He was a drunkard and lady killer, wouldn't that get him there? Would god take in to account his world class music?

Moses killed and Paul also order people killed. It is not about what you do! It's all about God saving you and forgiving you if you just ask him to.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Now aren't you just being so cute.

Pay attention to RBHILL.