1. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    18 Nov '08 14:04
    Germany's leading Muslim scholar says no ...

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122669909279629451.html

    ... interesting stuff.
  2. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    18 Nov '08 14:09
    More here:
    http://www.qantara.de/webcom/show_article.php/_c-478/_nr-812/i.html
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    18 Nov '08 14:25
    The same type of question as "Did Jesus exist?"
  4. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    18 Nov '08 14:28
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    The same type of question as "Did Jesus exist?"
    The implications for the questioner may be more drastic in this case.
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    18 Nov '08 14:44
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    The implications for the questioner may be more drastic in this case.
    Kalisch says: "The results were such that it is my conviction that it cannot be proven whether Muhammad actually lived or not" but that's not the same as if Mohammed didn't exist. He just says that he isn't sure of it.

    Is there any proof that Moses existed? Yes, the bible says so.
    Is there any proof that Mohammed existed? (Same kind of question, same kind of answer.) Yes, the quaran says so.

    Or the other way around:
    Is there any proof that Moses existed? No, just hearsay, nothing more.
    Is there any proof that Mohammed existed? (Again: Same kind of question, same kind of answer.) No, just hearsay, nothing more.

    I didn't take Jesus as an example here, becase he is mentionned in roman sources as well.

    If it is a part of the Moslem religion to believe that Mohammed is a historic person, then he is a historic person. As Moses is a real person.
  6. Standard memberPalynka
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    18 Nov '08 15:01
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Kalisch says: "The results were such that it is my conviction that it cannot be proven whether Muhammad actually lived or not" but that's not the same as if Mohammed didn't exist. He just says that he isn't sure of it.

    Is there any proof that Moses existed? Yes, the bible says so.
    Is there any proof that Mohammed existed? (Same kind of question, same ...[text shortened]... at Mohammed is a historic person, then he is a historic person. As Moses is a real person.
    Again you quote someone, but completely avoid what he said and merely speak with yourself.

    Hopeless.

    Bosse: It's a sad day when political correctness seems to trump scholarship. His arguments should be addressed, not simply stifled.
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    18 Nov '08 15:051 edit
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Again you quote someone, but completely avoid what he said and merely speak with yourself.

    Hopeless.

    Bosse: It's a sad day when political correctness seems to trump scholarship. His arguments should be addressed, not simply stifled.
    The quotation comes form one of the links. Then I comment this quote.
    Do you want to add something, perhaps your opinion in the matter, or are you just trolling? 🙂
  8. Standard memberPalynka
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    18 Nov '08 15:321 edit
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    The quotation comes form one of the links. Then I comment this quote.
    Do you want to add something, perhaps your opinion in the matter, or are you just trolling? 🙂
    I did add something. On topic. I directed it at Bosse, however, as I heard enough of your parroting.

    For example, when Bosse replied to you, you went back to get a quotation from his original post instead of addressing his reply. Sadly typical.

    Edit - Let me guess, here's the part where you accuse me of being off-topic because I answered your feeble minded accusations.
  9. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    18 Nov '08 17:131 edit
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Kalisch says: "The results were such that it is my conviction that it cannot be proven whether Muhammad actually lived or not" but that's not the same as if Mohammed didn't exist. He just says that he isn't sure of it.

    Is there any proof that Moses existed? Yes, the bible says so.
    Is there any proof that Mohammed existed? (Same kind of question, same at Mohammed is a historic person, then he is a historic person. As Moses is a real person.
    is there proof that superman exists...yes the comics books say so.
  10. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    18 Nov '08 17:16
    mentioOriginally posted by FabianFnas
    Kalisch says: "The results were such that it is my conviction that it cannot be proven whether Muhammad actually lived or not" but that's not the same as if Mohammed didn't exist. He just says that he isn't sure of it.

    Is there any proof that Moses existed? Yes, the bible says so.
    Is there any proof that Mohammed existed? (Same kind of question, ...[text shortened]... at Mohammed is a historic person, then he is a historic person. As Moses is a real person.
    Please , could you give me the Roman sources that mentions Jesus.
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    18 Nov '08 19:47
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Kalisch says: "The results were such that it is my conviction that it cannot be proven whether Muhammad actually lived or not" but that's not the same as if Mohammed didn't exist. He just says that he isn't sure of it.

    Is there any proof that Moses existed? Yes, the bible says so.
    Is there any proof that Mohammed existed? (Same kind of question, same ...[text shortened]... at Mohammed is a historic person, then he is a historic person. As Moses is a real person.
    Your comparison can't hold:

    There is no written information about Moses except of the holly books, but that doens't hold for Prophet Mohammed.

    It seems that you don't know anything about the prophet Mohammed when you say:

    Is there any proof that Mohammed existed? (Same kind of question, same kind of answer.) Yes, the quaran says so.

    not only quran say so, it is more than that!!!

    Prophet mohammed was seen and known by his followers, every single detail of his life was written and documented. To say that he didn't exist then you have to say that the first five Caliphs didn't exist as well, and so on until you reach today.

    No Muslim can say that everything written about Prophet Mohammed is correct. No , there are many writings that are false and lies. But early Muslims did that filtering. Not by destroying the false witting, but by reporting the history of each person who shared in transferring the information. So that any researcher can examine the source of information and determine its correctness.

    So when yous say:

    Is there any proof that Moses existed? No, just hearsay, nothing more.
    Is there any proof that Mohammed existed? (Again: Same kind of question, same kind of answer.) No, just hearsay, nothing more.


    So I have to say you are wrong!!
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    18 Nov '08 21:09
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    Your comparison can't hold:

    There is no written information about Moses except of the holly books, but that doens't hold for Prophet Mohammed.

    It seems that you don't know anything about the prophet Mohammed when you say:

    [b]Is there any proof that Mohammed existed? (Same kind of question, same kind of answer.) Yes, the quaran says so.


    not o ...[text shortened]... kind of answer.) No, just hearsay, nothing more.
    [/b]

    So I have to say you are wrong!![/b]
    ahosyney. "So I have to say you are wrong!"

    That's okay, even Kalisch was wrong in our eyes.

    Personally I belive in the existance of Mohammed (as well as Moses and Jesus). I also believe in their significance on the people of that time and thereafter, I have no problem with that either.
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    18 Nov '08 21:35
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    ahosyney. "So I have to say you are wrong!"

    That's okay, even Kalisch was wrong in our eyes.

    Personally I belive in the existance of Mohammed (as well as Moses and Jesus). I also believe in their significance on the people of that time and thereafter, I have no problem with that either.
    that is good!!!

    no problem then!!
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    19 Nov '08 05:38
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    that is good!!!

    no problem then!!
    ... but I have troubles with the supernatural implications.
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    19 Nov '08 06:07
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    ... but I have troubles with the supernatural implications.
    I know, no surprise!!!
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