30 Jan 10
Originally posted by Rajk999There ya go: when the three mere mortals witnessed the Transfiguration of the Lord Jesus Christ in the presence of the used-to-be mortals Moses and Elijah, they tasted what has become the goal of all spiritual-minded people, the kingdom of God.
Six days after - the transfiguration.
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by FreakyKBHGo back one verse:
There ya go: when the three mere mortals witnessed the Transfiguration of the Lord Jesus Christ in the presence of the used-to-be mortals Moses and Elijah, they tasted what has become the goal of all spiritual-minded people, the kingdom of God.
"For the Son of Man is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels and then he will reward each one according to his deeds. I assure you that there are some here who will not die until they have seen the Son of Man come as King."
It clearly has nothing to do with your transfiguration rationalization.
Interpret it as a fundamentalist. Jesus wanted to assure his disciples that they need not wait long, for the end time kingdom was just around the corner.
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by RegicidalOk. Freaky's theory made no sense. But in your explanation Christ appears to be telling a lie just to make the disciples feel that the kingdom was around the corner?
Go back one verse:
"For the Son of Man is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels and then he will reward each one according to his deeds. I assure you that there are some here who will not die until they have seen the Son of Man come as King."
It clearly has nothing to do with your transfiguration rationalization.
Interpret it ...[text shortened]... s disciples that they need not wait long, for the end time kingdom was just around the corner.
Why would he do that?
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by Rajk999Are you questioning how it reads as if some will taste death when "they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom"? Like "you will not taste this until you see that" implies that "when you see that, you will taste this"? In this case they will taste death?
Does anyone have a reasonable interpretation of this passage?
Matt 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneNo. The 'some standing here' part. The passage implies that the kingdom is just a few years away or that 'some standing here' will live a very long time.
Are you questioning how it reads as if some will taste death when "they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom"? Like "you will not taste this until you see that" implies that "when you see that, you will taste this"? In this case they will taste death?
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by Rajk999What do you think "the Son of man coming in his kingdom" is referring to?
No. The 'some standing here' part. The passage implies that the kingdom is just a few years away or that 'some standing here' will live a very long time.
Also take a look at the version from Luke:
Luke 9:27
“But I say to you truthfully, there are some of those standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.”
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by Rajk999I'm not a fundamentalist and I question the divinity of Jesus. I was pointing out that the literal interpretations that fundamentalists typically take implies that Jesus was in human error, which reinforces my doubt.
Ok. Freaky's theory made no sense. But in your explanation Christ appears to be telling a lie just to make the disciples feel that the kingdom was around the corner?
Why would he do that?
I believe the scripture writer was speaking to a persecuted church eager for a regime change. It's more a case of zeal, not lies.
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by RegicidalWell, if we're going to go back, we may as well go all the way back and consider the passage in the context in which it was written. This particular passage is a study of contrasts. At one point, Peter is being commended for his faith, while in the next sentence he is considered an agent of Satan.
Go back one verse:
"For the Son of Man is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels and then he will reward each one according to his deeds. I assure you that there are some here who will not die until they have seen the Son of Man come as King."
It clearly has nothing to do with your transfiguration rationalization.
Interpret it ...[text shortened]... s disciples that they need not wait long, for the end time kingdom was just around the corner.
The verse to which you refer is not to be interpreted as an immediate event, but rather as a future one. The immediate event is the one which occurs, just as the Lord Jesus Christ intones: some of the people hearing His voice will receive a taste of the kingdom of God, before they die.
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneThe previous verse explains what "the Son of man coming in his kingdom" is:
What do you think "the Son of man coming in his kingdom" is referring to?
Also take a look at the version from Luke:
Luke 9:27
“But I say to you truthfully, there are some of those standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.”
Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Luke 9 says essentially the same thing.
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by Rajk999Sorry, I should have been more explicit.
The previous verse explains what "the Son of man coming in his kingdom" is:
Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Luke 9 says essentially the same thing.
I didn't understand where you were going with this statement of yours:
"The passage implies that the kingdom is just a few years away or that 'some standing here' will live a very long time."
I see no such implication. I was thinking that seeing your explanation of "the Son of man coming in his kingdom" would shed light on this.
So what is this implication based on?
01 Feb 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneWell its 2010 now. Did anyone see Christ coming in .." glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works."?
Sorry, I should have been more explicit.
I didn't understand where you were going with this statement of yours:
"The passage implies that the kingdom is just a few years away or that 'some standing here' will live a very long time."
I see no such implication. I was thinking that seeing your explanation of "the Son of man coming in his kingdom" would shed light on this.
So what is this implication based on?
No? Then a couple of the guys standing there must still be alive.
01 Feb 10
1 edit
Originally posted by FreakyKBHThere is no contrast or jumping around in subject matter as far as those two verses are concerned.
Well, if we're going to go back, we may as well go all the way back and consider the passage in the context in which it was written. This particular passage is a study of contrasts. At one point, Peter is being commended for his faith, while in the next sentence he is considered an agent of Satan.
The verse to which you refer is not to be interpreted ...[text shortened]... me of the people hearing His voice will receive a taste of the kingdom of God, before they die.
First off, the text should read:
“For the Son of Man is about to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works."
The word "about" is strangely and improperly missing from the quotes in the other posts. The word "about" was included in my post.
About means SOON.
Second, Notice the word "Assuredly" or "Verily" in verse 28. Assuredly is always used in scripture as a point of emphasis to the previous verse, meaning no change in subject matter.
An explanation that has been put forth by some scholars that is consistent with the "some not dying" is that judgement and the new kingdom has already occurred with the destruction of the temple, 70 AD, and the removal of the old testament form of worship. Interestingly, the analysis of tense implies "the some disciples" looking back at the event, according to the scholars (eg. Luke 9 "until they have seen.....). In that case, the kingdom does not refer to a future, end time kingdom.