1. Joined
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    15 Jul '08 12:39
    before discussing scientology, let's take christianity. a person named jesus appears, claims he is the son of god and preaches something quite nice and hippie: love and compassion. he possibly does some miracles as witnesses claims and people discover this religion is nice and become christians(i too although some issues i don't agree with).

    now to the scientologists. hubbard was a science-fiction writer. he claims the best way to get rich is to found a religion. which he does. he doesn't perform any miracles he just starts making claims. that we are the descendants of aliens who have been killed by an alien tyrant some millions of years ago and the souls of those aliens entered the primates and poof, humans appeared. members are required to give contributions either in money or in free labour for the organisation in return for auditing. the most important of their followers are famous people like actors and singers and the other members of the church are ignored.

    these being said, my question is : is scientology worthy of being called a religion or is it just a heist created by a greedy jerk. in which way is it different or similar from christianity, islam or the other established religions? and is it the same believing that a being is the son of god with believing an evil extraterrestrial killed other extraterrestrials and we posses their souls(thetans)?
  2. Subscriberduecer
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    15 Jul '08 14:41
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    before discussing scientology, let's take christianity. a person named jesus appears, claims he is the son of god and preaches something quite nice and hippie: love and compassion. he possibly does some miracles as witnesses claims and people discover this religion is nice and become christians(i too although some issues i don't agree with).

    now to the ...[text shortened]... g an evil extraterrestrial killed other extraterrestrials and we posses their souls(thetans)?
    In all fairness, he wrote his best seller "Dianetics" before founding scientology. It was widely regarded at the time of its release as ground breaking. Since which time, he exploited his followers, and his subsequent heirs of the scientology community have completely perverted what was a reasonable (yet secular) method of self improvement.
  3. Joined
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    16 Jul '08 07:29
    Originally posted by duecer
    In all fairness, he wrote his best seller "Dianetics" before founding scientology. It was widely regarded at the time of its release as ground breaking. Since which time, he exploited his followers, and his subsequent heirs of the scientology community have completely perverted what was a reasonable (yet secular) method of self improvement.
    yes, what i am saying is that he at most founded a philosophy. Nietzsche didn't start one. so apart from getting filthy rich, what would have been his motives. or there aren't none?
  4. Standard memberScriabin
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    16 Jul '08 17:57
    Hubbard adapted the entire thing from an old comic and pulp fiction work called Flash Gordon, which starred Buster Crabbe in the 1930s movie serial versions. That's the version most similar to what Hubbard decided to rip off.
    See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_the_Merciless

    There is a long tradition of recycling old comics and pulp fiction in different genres -- there are a lot of sight gags referring to old comics and movie serials in Spielberg's and Lucas' films, but they come those honestly.

    Gene Roddenberry got his formula for Star Trek from the movie Forbidden Planet -- intrepid starship captain and his two pals, the doctor and the science officer -- and guess what they do? Land on a planet that has a mad scientist with a lovely daughter and, of course, super advanced alien technology and a monster that comes from that.

    So, the only thing really new is turning all this sort of recycling into a fantastically profitable scam. But I sure wouldn't want to name which organization is perpetrating a scam because they got lawyers, ya know.
  5. At the Revolution
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    16 Jul '08 19:45
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    before discussing scientology, let's take christianity. a person named jesus appears, claims he is the son of god and preaches something quite nice and hippie: love and compassion. he possibly does some miracles as witnesses claims and people discover this religion is nice and become christians(i too although some issues i don't agree with).

    now to the ...[text shortened]... g an evil extraterrestrial killed other extraterrestrials and we posses their souls(thetans)?
    Hubbard was insane. Don't listen to him. Scientology is a cult. In a sense, so are most religions to some extent, but Scientology is an elitist cult. No one would benefit from its teachings, especially not those who are not rich rich rich people who have nothing better to do with their time and are completely unethical. Most religions only require that someone be a believer in the deities, customs, etc. of a given religion in order to be part of said religion. Most of the time these people are tolerant of other religions, with some exceptions with all religions.

    Scientology requires payment to even know the customs, etc. of the religions, including, apparently, bad acting (Tom). They kill people who dissent.

    Don't look for me, L.Ron
  6. Standard memberDrimachus
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    19 Jul '08 13:03
    Scientology can be classed as a religion although so can many other groups that are in fact cults or sects. There is only one truth. We find, in the Acts odf the Apostles, that Paul repeatedly REASONED with people, as did Jesus and others. What did they reason about? All the Old Testament prophecies concerening the Christ. See Luke chapter 24, verses 25 to 27.
    I am constantly amazed, as a Christian, how virtually all churches seem to ignore Biblical prophecy, despite 25% (a quarter!!) of the Bible being prophetic.
  7. At the Revolution
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    19 Jul '08 19:06
    Originally posted by Drimachus
    Scientology can be classed as a religion although so can many other groups that are in fact cults or sects. There is only one truth. We find, in the Acts odf the Apostles, that Paul repeatedly REASONED with people, as did Jesus and others. What did they reason about? All the Old Testament prophecies concerening the Christ. See Luke chapter 24, verses 25 to ...[text shortened]... urches seem to ignore Biblical prophecy, despite 25% (a quarter!!) of the Bible being prophetic.
    In most religions, even Christianity, reasoning is peaceful when you're not colonizing.

    In Scientology, people who speak out against it are killed if the Scientologist Clergy (or whatever) gets their hands on the dissenter.
  8. Standard memberDrimachus
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    20 Jul '08 08:28
    In Scientology, people who speak out against it are killed if the Scientologist Clergy (or whatever) gets their hands on the dissenter.[/b]
    Any "religion" that persecutes dissenters HAS to has false. Yes, Crusaders and many since have advocatred (and dealt out) violence in the name of Christ but it has nothing to do with His teachings.
  9. At the Revolution
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    20 Jul '08 14:231 edit
    Originally posted by Drimachus
    Any "religion" that persecutes dissenters HAS to has false. Yes, Crusaders and many since have advocatred (and dealt out) violence in the name of Christ but it has nothing to do with His teachings.
    According to your argument, at one time or another, every faith was proven to be false. That's one of the points I've been trying to make this whole time.

    Correct, I don't think Jesus would have approved of what happened in his name after he died. If he were still alive. Which he's not. He's dead and gonna stay dead. Unless he becomes a man-eating zombie. Sad but true.
  10. Standard memberDrimachus
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    21 Jul '08 08:11
    He (Jesus) is dead and gonna stay dead.
    You, like a lot of other people, are in for one gigantic shock!
  11. Joined
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    21 Jul '08 11:56
    Originally posted by scherzo
    According to your argument, at one time or another, every faith was proven to be false. That's one of the points I've been trying to make this whole time.

    Correct, I don't think Jesus would have approved of what happened in his name after he died. If he were still alive. Which he's not. He's dead and gonna stay dead. Unless he becomes a man-eating zombie. Sad but true.
    he means the religions perverted for ones reasons. the crusaders formed their own version of christianity, one where jesus would smile upon those that killed in his name. the "christianity" of the crusaders is false. the islam of the terrorists is false.
  12. At the Revolution
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    21 Jul '08 15:29
    Originally posted by Drimachus
    You, like a lot of other people, are in for one gigantic shock!
    I look forward to it.

    😴
  13. At the Revolution
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    21 Jul '08 15:32
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    he means the religions perverted for ones reasons. the crusaders formed their own version of christianity, one where jesus would smile upon those that killed in his name. the "christianity" of the crusaders is false. the islam of the terrorists is false.
    The Crusades were a Christian endeavour. There is no denying that, otherwise they would have taken North Africa or India instead of Palestine.

    I also will not deny that there are terrorists committing acts in the name of Islam. However, everyone knows that, and everyone overreacts that. There are 1.3 billion (1,300,000,000) Muslims in the world; 99.99% are not terrorists. The other 0.01% are, and they commit their acts in the name of Islam. However, again, this is in the vast minority.
  14. Subscribersonhouse
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    23 Jul '08 08:18
    Originally posted by Drimachus
    You, like a lot of other people, are in for one gigantic shock!
    Don't quit your day job....
  15. Subscribersonhouse
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    23 Jul '08 08:22
    Originally posted by scherzo
    The Crusades were a Christian endeavour. There is no denying that, otherwise they would have taken North Africa or India instead of Palestine.

    I also will not deny that there are terrorists committing acts in the name of Islam. However, everyone knows that, and everyone overreacts that. There are 1.3 billion (1,300,000,000) Muslims in the world; 99.99% ar ...[text shortened]... , and they commit their acts in the name of Islam. However, again, this is in the vast minority.
    So that leaves 130,000 terrorists. Since ONE terrorist can kill dozens of people, say 24 average, then those 130,000 can be responsible for over 3 MILLION deaths. All in the name of Allah.
    You have to count the merits of a religion by its lowest members, not its highest.
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