1. Tsandi
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    06 Oct '05 12:47
    Somebody give me an answer, if a jew rejects the Son, and keeps all the customs of Moses, what happens.
    considering what Jesus told Nicodemus, and what all their profets said, and what bout daniels 70 weeks prophecy, where a day is a year, that was executed to perfection down to the last minute, where the priest walks into the holiest of holies in the temple and finds the curtain torn into two, because the messiah is cut off.

    the jews, believed that their actions and blood-sacrifices, shall bring them justification, and forgiveness of sin before the lord.

    But what really happened, is that the blood of goats, and animals merely "covered" their sin, and jesus was the real sacrifice that "took" away the sin of the world. Now if one continues to cover the sin will they be taken away again, especially if you do not believe.

    Read Daniel 9:27 again, and see what Jesus actually did.
    "Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
    But in the middle of the week
    He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. "

    So basically what I ask is this, is a jew who does not belive that christ is the son of God, and hence can not be born again. Can he see the kingdom of God.
  2. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    06 Oct '05 13:07
    Originally posted by zombies
    So basically what I ask is this, is a jew who does not belive that christ is the son of God, and hence can not be born again. Can he see the kingdom of God.
    God only knows.
  3. Standard memberwib
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    06 Oct '05 13:09
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    God only knows.
    LOL Bosse!

    Ok, seriously, to the original poster, I imagine it depends on who you're asking? If you're asking this question of someone that's Jewish they're gonna say "of course I'll get into heaven".

    If you're asking a christian there's a good chance they're gonna say "NO".

    Everybody else is going to give you the best answer, which is "I don't know".
  4. Tsandi
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    06 Oct '05 13:42
    Originally posted by wib
    LOL Bosse!

    Ok, seriously, to the original poster, I imagine it depends on who you're asking? If you're asking this question of someone that's Jewish they're gonna say "of course I'll get into heaven".

    If you're asking a christian there's a good chance they're gonna say "NO".

    Everybody else is going to give you the best answer, which is "I don't know".
    yeah, but the laws of moses never changed the spirit of man, you were dead spiritually, and "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God".

    Can one enter heaven by one's works, can one live ones complete life without one screw-up. And anyways so you screw up this year, and at the end of that year you go to the temple and do some sacrifice "thing" and all the sins for that year are covered, and you start on a clean sheet. and after a week, you break the "love" commandment, which is literally the easiest to break anyway, but also the most important one. And then you die just after breaking that.

    then you basically do not have a clean sheet anymore, and when you come to the judge (being Christ)
    "John 5:22 - For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son"

    "John 5:30
    I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me."

    The very one you rejected, what happens??? And from an old testament point of view, did jews really see themselves in heaven, or did they just see today's life as all there is to it.??

    Did jews really believe in an after-life??? a reward, just look at moses "I have put before you life and death, choose life so that you and your descendants may live". Live where exactly, "on earth". They never understood the concept of life after death,???

    or did they
  5. Standard memberwib
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    06 Oct '05 13:56
    Originally posted by zombies
    yeah, but the laws of moses never changed the spirit of man, you were dead spiritually, and "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God".

    Can one enter heaven by one's works, can one live ones complete life without one screw-up. And anyways so you screw up this year, and at the end of that year you go to the temple and do some sacrifice "thin ...[text shortened]... exactly, "on earth". They never understood the concept of life after death,???

    or did they
    Oh man, I have no idea what you're talking about. You may as well be reading someone's horoscope.

    Let's take a step into the real world for a moment. I'll ask 10 different people if Jews go to heaven. If one of those 10 is Jewish I'll get at least one "yes". Everyone else is going to say "No" or they'll ask a bunch of questions in return. Some will even say there is no heaven so the question is flawed.
  6. Standard memberorfeo
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    06 Oct '05 14:43
    I have to confess, even as a Christian I find it very hard to read some of your writing style.

    I think my answer to you would be "go read the Letter to the Hebrews". It's very much about demonstrating why the old covenant (or 'testament'😉 was inferior to the new, and I think you'd find it helpful.
  7. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    06 Oct '05 14:45
    Originally posted by orfeo
    I think my answer to you would be "go read the Letter to the Hebrews". It's very much about demonstrating why the old covenant (or 'testament'😉 was inferior to the new, and I think you'd find it helpful.
    Nicely understated.
  8. Colorado
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    06 Oct '05 21:37
    Try asking God 😉
  9. Standard memberRemoved
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    06 Oct '05 23:58
    Originally posted by zombies
    Somebody give me an answer, if a jew rejects the Son, and keeps all the customs of Moses, what happens.
    considering what Jesus told Nicodemus, and what all their profets said, and what bout daniels 70 weeks prophecy, where a day is a year, that was executed to perfection down to the last minute, where the priest walks into the holiest of holies in the templ ...[text shortened]... that christ is the son of God, and hence can not be born again. Can he see the kingdom of God.
    Well, I think the answer is in the bible. Since Jews no longer offer sacrifices of bulls and goats, then they are not cleansed. And furthermore, the sacrifices were once a year, what if one died before the annual sacrifice?

    And what about the verse in Romans "all have sinned and fall short..."

    Now having said that, I have learned that the believers (Jews) in the OT were saved through faith just like we are. That is, they were saved Looking forward to the Messiah, by faith. We are saved looking back on the Messiah, by faith. So the OT believers were saved by faith. But the ones who rejected the Messiah are not saved.

    To simplify matters, consider the following verses...


    Rom 4:9-16
    9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness.
    10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised.
    11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,
    12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.
    13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
    14 For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect,
    15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
    16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
    (NKJ)
    Hope this helps...
  10. Tsandi
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    07 Oct '05 07:34
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Well, I think the answer is in the bible. Since Jews no longer offer sacrifices of bulls and goats, then they are not cleansed. And furthermore, the sacrifices were once a year, what if one died before the annual sacrifice?

    And what about the verse in Romans "all have sinned and fall short..."

    Now having said that, I have learned that the believe ...[text shortened]... to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
    (NKJ)
    Hope this helps...
    Perfect answer.
  11. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    07 Oct '05 07:58
    Originally posted by zombies
    Perfect answer.
    So is that a yes or a no? Let's keep it simple, zombies.
  12. Standard memberRemoved
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    07 Oct '05 22:28
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    So is that a yes or a no? Let's keep it simple, zombies.
    No.
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    07 Oct '05 23:44
    The Jews did do a terrible deed, and most Christians will say no, but ths Jews still believe in what they do and are, and feel truely sorry for themselves about what happened to them in the war with Hitler. I think that they are ressponsible, and Jews are ok if the ask forgiveness for their sins.
  14. Standard memberRemoved
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    07 Oct '05 23:55
    Originally posted by kat97
    The Jews did do a terrible deed, and most Christians will say no, but ths Jews still believe in what they do and are, and feel truely sorry for themselves about what happened to them in the war with Hitler. I think that they are ressponsible, and Jews are ok if the ask forgiveness for their sins.
    This has nothing to do with Hitler, etc. The Jews are forgiven like anyone else, if they confess The Messiah, Jesus Christ as Lord, and accept Him as their substitute for sins.
  15. Standard memberwindmill
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    08 Oct '05 12:21
    Originally posted by zombies
    Somebody give me an answer, if a jew rejects the Son, and keeps all the customs of Moses, what happens.
    considering what Jesus told Nicodemus, and what all their profets said, and what bout daniels 70 weeks prophecy, where a day is a year, that was executed to perfection down to the last minute, where the priest walks into the holiest of holies in the templ ...[text shortened]... that christ is the son of God, and hence can not be born again. Can he see the kingdom of God.
    For God so loved the world he gave only Son,that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world,but to save the world through him.Whoever believes in him is not condemned,but whoever does not believe stands condemened already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.John 3:16-18
    I'll go with no.
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