1. Joined
    15 Sep '06
    Moves
    1692
    20 Nov '06 20:14
    Do you believe in Heaven or Hell even if you do belong to a religion? Some do but an astonishing amount of people don't. I am curious as to how many don't.
  2. Standard memberHand of Hecate
    Merciless Vagabond
    Deep in it.
    Joined
    08 Feb '05
    Moves
    14616
    20 Nov '06 20:24
    Originally posted by Black Queen
    Do you believe in Heaven or Hell even if you do belong to a religion? Some do but an astonishing amount of people don't. I am curious as to how many don't.
    You're soaking in it... Hell that is.
  3. Account suspended
    Joined
    08 Nov '06
    Moves
    392
    20 Nov '06 20:27
    Originally posted by Black Queen
    Do you believe in Heaven or Hell even if you do belong to a religion? Some do but an astonishing amount of people don't. I am curious as to how many don't.
    Do you mean this life or the next?
  4. Joined
    15 Sep '06
    Moves
    1692
    20 Nov '06 20:281 edit
    Ha ha... The next life. And what do you mean- you're soaking in it?
  5. Joined
    06 Jul '06
    Moves
    2926
    21 Nov '06 00:02
    hell in this life- middle east
    heaven in this life- who knows?
  6. Melbourne, Australia
    Joined
    17 Feb '04
    Moves
    50039
    21 Nov '06 00:57
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    hell in this life- middle east
    heaven in this life- who knows?
    I do.
    Heaven is being in the arms of someone you love; the physical satisfaction of your mutual attraction; watching your kids grow up and achieve amazing things.
    That's heaven.
  7. Account suspended
    Joined
    08 Nov '06
    Moves
    392
    21 Nov '06 05:56
    Originally posted by Black Queen
    Ha ha... The next life. And what do you mean- you're soaking in it?
    I reckon heaven and hell is just a fantasy made up in this lifetime based on 10% skills/gifts, 20% work put in towards either/or, and 70% luck!

    I believe in a real heaven and hell... but not in this lifetime.
  8. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
    Joined
    09 Sep '01
    Moves
    26187
    21 Nov '06 06:57
    Originally posted by Black Queen
    Do you believe in Heaven or Hell even if you do belong to a religion? Some do but an astonishing amount of people don't. I am curious as to how many don't.
    I do not believe in either heaven or hell.
  9. Standard membermokko
    Sinner
    Where I belong
    Joined
    23 Apr '05
    Moves
    22384
    21 Nov '06 07:04
    There was a very good documentary on a few months back on the phsycology of imagery. It shows the origins of where the concepts of heaven and hell came from (pre bible) I found it very interesting to see the exact point in time where the dual imagery of heaven (glorious afterlife filled with happiness and love) and hell (raging beasts and damnation) joined together and under what circumstances it occured.

    I don't believe in heaven or hell.
  10. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    21 Nov '06 07:57
    Originally posted by mokko
    There was a very good documentary on a few months back on the phsycology of imagery. It shows the origins of where the concepts of heaven and hell came from (pre bible) I found it very interesting to see the exact point in time where the dual imagery of heaven (glorious afterlife filled with happiness and love) and hell (raging beasts and damnation) joined together and under what circumstances it occured.

    I don't believe in heaven or hell.
    If the documentary claimed to know an exact point in time when certain beliefs were formed then I don't think it was as good a documentary as you say. For a start your post rather assumes that the whole world is one small village and that all concepts of heaven and hell have a single root. I am sure that many different cultures throughout the world have had similar beliefs which have developed in various ways over time and that the people who wrote the Bible were influenced by many different cultures and beliefs.

    My experience is that parents often use a very strong image of Hell to try and encourage faith in their children and evangelists often use it as a threat to try and win converts (including some on this site). However after questioning both parents and evangelists they then soften it up and change the descriptions of what they actually believe. However I think children who do not question further as they grow up, tend to keep the threatening image of hell and this perpetuates the various myths.
  11. Standard membermokko
    Sinner
    Where I belong
    Joined
    23 Apr '05
    Moves
    22384
    21 Nov '06 08:44
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    If the documentary claimed to know an exact point in time when certain beliefs were formed then I don't think it was as good a documentary as you say. For a start your post rather assumes that the whole world is one small village and that all concepts of heaven and hell have a single root. I am sure that many different cultures throughout the world have h ...[text shortened]... hey grow up, tend to keep the threatening image of hell and this perpetuates the various myths.
    Well it was some time ago and it was focused on the phsycology of imagery but it did delve into different cultures around the world with different historical realities. One culture was consumed with images of brutal and violent images of death. There was no evidence of a so called heaven experience depicted in any of it's artifacts. The drawings and sculptures reflected their reality of death and tribal wars. The phsycology used was one to entice unity in defending against rival tribes and a painfull and punishing afterlife if you failed in your unity.

    Another culture was revealed in which there was elaborate "death huts" erected for those who passed on. Each person who passed recieved their own hut. These huts were decorated with images of music, loved ones and every comfort a person would need in the other world. No such imagery of demaons or hell were present. The history shows no neighboring rivals and a peacefull community. Hence no need for the phsycological manipulation of a punishing afterlife.

    Around the pre roman era during the time of invasions and war is where the first images of demons and fire are found within similiar types of these death huts. The combination of the imagery from a culture of war and violence with the imagery of a peacefull and comforting existence.

    The phsycology being that when humans are faced with their own mortality instinct automatically leads us to side with those of similiar values. In order to control the mass populations and enable them to effectively stand together and fight for their beliefs the idea of being rewarded in death was used along with the pain and suffering to those who did not stand and fight on the right side.

    So the first time historically where both images of a so called heaven and hell were portrayed was within a particular culture where peace was prevalent up until the point of Roman invasion.

    It at no points assumes that the whole world is one small village. It's the findings world wide on a time line. From a certain time foreward there is dual imagery within all cultures. It wasn't untill finding two seperate cultures in seperate parts of the world where only one image was predominate and then finding the time inbetween these single imagery cultures where both good and evil images are depicted.

    The rest is history.
  12. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    21 Nov '06 09:44
    Originally posted by mokko
    Well it was some time ago and it was focused on the phsycology of imagery but it did delve into different cultures around the world with different historical realities. One culture was consumed with images of brutal and violent images of death. There was no evidence of a so called heaven experience depicted in any of it's artifacts. The drawings and sculptures ...[text shortened]... gle imagery cultures where both good and evil images are depicted.

    The rest is history.
    You got rather mixed up in your descriptions, especially when it comes to the romans. I am fairly sure that the concepts of heaven and hell in the Bible predate the romans by a long time.
    You also imply that the concepts suddenly started at one point in history and spread worldwide almost instantaneously and have no other source.
    As I said, a very narrow minded view of the world.
  13. Standard membermokko
    Sinner
    Where I belong
    Joined
    23 Apr '05
    Moves
    22384
    21 Nov '06 10:11
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    You got rather mixed up in your descriptions, especially when it comes to the romans. I am fairly sure that the concepts of heaven and hell in the Bible predate the romans by a long time.
    You also imply that the concepts suddenly started at one point in history and spread worldwide almost instantaneously and have no other source.
    As I said, a very narrow minded view of the world.
    I only watched the show some months ago. I didn't produce it. I'm sure that I in no way can recite everything it said from memory. The facts may be sckewed due to my shoddy memory but the sentiment is there. Wish I could remember what network I seen it on. It would make more sense if I got it right.
  14. Standard memberBosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    Spiel des Lebens
    Joined
    27 Jan '05
    Moves
    83887
    21 Nov '06 10:15
    Jerusalem, Je-RUUU-salem...
Back to Top