21 Nov 06
Originally posted by Black QueenI reckon heaven and hell is just a fantasy made up in this lifetime based on 10% skills/gifts, 20% work put in towards either/or, and 70% luck!
Ha ha... The next life. And what do you mean- you're soaking in it?
I believe in a real heaven and hell... but not in this lifetime.
21 Nov 06
There was a very good documentary on a few months back on the phsycology of imagery. It shows the origins of where the concepts of heaven and hell came from (pre bible) I found it very interesting to see the exact point in time where the dual imagery of heaven (glorious afterlife filled with happiness and love) and hell (raging beasts and damnation) joined together and under what circumstances it occured.
I don't believe in heaven or hell.
21 Nov 06
Originally posted by mokkoIf the documentary claimed to know an exact point in time when certain beliefs were formed then I don't think it was as good a documentary as you say. For a start your post rather assumes that the whole world is one small village and that all concepts of heaven and hell have a single root. I am sure that many different cultures throughout the world have had similar beliefs which have developed in various ways over time and that the people who wrote the Bible were influenced by many different cultures and beliefs.
There was a very good documentary on a few months back on the phsycology of imagery. It shows the origins of where the concepts of heaven and hell came from (pre bible) I found it very interesting to see the exact point in time where the dual imagery of heaven (glorious afterlife filled with happiness and love) and hell (raging beasts and damnation) joined together and under what circumstances it occured.
I don't believe in heaven or hell.
My experience is that parents often use a very strong image of Hell to try and encourage faith in their children and evangelists often use it as a threat to try and win converts (including some on this site). However after questioning both parents and evangelists they then soften it up and change the descriptions of what they actually believe. However I think children who do not question further as they grow up, tend to keep the threatening image of hell and this perpetuates the various myths.
21 Nov 06
Originally posted by twhiteheadWell it was some time ago and it was focused on the phsycology of imagery but it did delve into different cultures around the world with different historical realities. One culture was consumed with images of brutal and violent images of death. There was no evidence of a so called heaven experience depicted in any of it's artifacts. The drawings and sculptures reflected their reality of death and tribal wars. The phsycology used was one to entice unity in defending against rival tribes and a painfull and punishing afterlife if you failed in your unity.
If the documentary claimed to know an exact point in time when certain beliefs were formed then I don't think it was as good a documentary as you say. For a start your post rather assumes that the whole world is one small village and that all concepts of heaven and hell have a single root. I am sure that many different cultures throughout the world have h ...[text shortened]... hey grow up, tend to keep the threatening image of hell and this perpetuates the various myths.
Another culture was revealed in which there was elaborate "death huts" erected for those who passed on. Each person who passed recieved their own hut. These huts were decorated with images of music, loved ones and every comfort a person would need in the other world. No such imagery of demaons or hell were present. The history shows no neighboring rivals and a peacefull community. Hence no need for the phsycological manipulation of a punishing afterlife.
Around the pre roman era during the time of invasions and war is where the first images of demons and fire are found within similiar types of these death huts. The combination of the imagery from a culture of war and violence with the imagery of a peacefull and comforting existence.
The phsycology being that when humans are faced with their own mortality instinct automatically leads us to side with those of similiar values. In order to control the mass populations and enable them to effectively stand together and fight for their beliefs the idea of being rewarded in death was used along with the pain and suffering to those who did not stand and fight on the right side.
So the first time historically where both images of a so called heaven and hell were portrayed was within a particular culture where peace was prevalent up until the point of Roman invasion.
It at no points assumes that the whole world is one small village. It's the findings world wide on a time line. From a certain time foreward there is dual imagery within all cultures. It wasn't untill finding two seperate cultures in seperate parts of the world where only one image was predominate and then finding the time inbetween these single imagery cultures where both good and evil images are depicted.
The rest is history.
21 Nov 06
Originally posted by mokkoYou got rather mixed up in your descriptions, especially when it comes to the romans. I am fairly sure that the concepts of heaven and hell in the Bible predate the romans by a long time.
Well it was some time ago and it was focused on the phsycology of imagery but it did delve into different cultures around the world with different historical realities. One culture was consumed with images of brutal and violent images of death. There was no evidence of a so called heaven experience depicted in any of it's artifacts. The drawings and sculptures ...[text shortened]... gle imagery cultures where both good and evil images are depicted.
The rest is history.
You also imply that the concepts suddenly started at one point in history and spread worldwide almost instantaneously and have no other source.
As I said, a very narrow minded view of the world.
21 Nov 06
Originally posted by twhiteheadI only watched the show some months ago. I didn't produce it. I'm sure that I in no way can recite everything it said from memory. The facts may be sckewed due to my shoddy memory but the sentiment is there. Wish I could remember what network I seen it on. It would make more sense if I got it right.
You got rather mixed up in your descriptions, especially when it comes to the romans. I am fairly sure that the concepts of heaven and hell in the Bible predate the romans by a long time.
You also imply that the concepts suddenly started at one point in history and spread worldwide almost instantaneously and have no other source.
As I said, a very narrow minded view of the world.
