Suzianne: "The bottom line is "Do you believe it, or not?" This is why we still have jury trials in the US. Sometimes a person who is charged has no alibi, no proof that they did not do the crime. We are people. We are fallible. And we give the benefit of the doubt. "Do we believe it, or not?" is still the bottom line. Some choose to. Some choose not to. It is our choice. Free will is our saving grace. It must reach beyond the facts, because the facts are scarce. "Do we believe it, or not?" Everyone answers this for themselves. And that is our gift."
"Do we believe it, or not?" is still the bottom line. Some choose to. Some choose not to. It is our choice.
A question to Suzianne: Can you "choose" not to believe in Jesus?
I don't think you can, Suzianne.
Just as I can't "choose" to believe in Him in the way Christians do.
I don't think the concept of "free will" applies convincingly or effectively to religious beliefs.
I think it is weak from the psychological point of view and demonstrates a faulty take on human nature.
People realize that they believe in supernatural things; they don't decide to believe them.
@fmf saidIt is scripturally sound to state that no one can believe, have faith in the saving grace of Jesus Christ unless supernaturally enabled.
Suzianne: "The bottom line is "Do you believe it, or not?" This is why we still have jury trials in the US. Sometimes a person who is charged has no alibi, no proof that they did not do the crime. We are people. We are fallible. And we give the benefit of the doubt. "Do we believe it, or not?" is still the bottom line. Some choose to. Some choose not to. It is our choice ...[text shortened]... ture.
People realize that they believe in supernatural things; they don't decide to believe them.
I believe it is possible however for a person to humanistically read the teachings of Christ and the apostles and see goodness in them and try to emulate them anyway.
@fmf saidI've said in this forum and elsewhere that no, of course I cannot choose to not believe.
Suzianne: "The bottom line is "Do you believe it, or not?" This is why we still have jury trials in the US. Sometimes a person who is charged has no alibi, no proof that they did not do the crime. We are people. We are fallible. And we give the benefit of the doubt. "Do we believe it, or not?" is still the bottom line. Some choose to. Some choose not to. It is our choice ...[text shortened]... ture.
People realize that they believe in supernatural things; they don't decide to believe them.
But this is because I have already chosen to believe. This changes out the broken compass for one that works. I cannot "decide" that my corrected compass now points south when it does not.
I've also told you time and again, that one cannot "realize" something that is not real. Realization is a process of accepting what is real. It does not work the other way round. That's called "deciding"... or choosing.
@suzianne saidI disagree. I did not choose to stop believing. I simply realized that the belief I'd had was gone.
I've also told you time and again, that one cannot "realize" something that is not real. Realization is a process of accepting what is real. It does not work the other way round. That's called "deciding"... or choosing.
When I was a Christian - and believed what Christians do - I did not have the "free will" to not believe in the supernatural things that were interwoven with my Christian beliefs. However, once I had lost that faith, I could not somehow deploy my "free will" to decide to reinstate it.
No one can use "free will" to decide to believe in the Hindu deities, for example. They can use "free will" to decide to investigate and expose themselves to Hindu beliefs but, unless the realization that these supernatural beings and phenomena have taken hold in their psyche occurs and they coincide in some way with their instincts, there is no amount of "free will" that can enable a person to simply make a decision to believe them.
Belief in supernatural causality and "free will" do not have the relationship that religionists seem to think they do.