"Does God exist?"

Originally posted by Suzianne
What? You said exactly the same thing.

Edit: Actually, it was Jesus talking. You know, the Sermon on the Mount?

Says who?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
you want hard statistics that historically there are more non christians than christians????? are you serious???

my point is not that the quantity of non christians proves christianity is wrong. it was a response to your point that god has left a little door for those who want out. implying that most people dont want out, when the opposite is true, m ...[text shortened]... istians, so from your little scenario it means most people have passed through this little door.

But the door is not little. You yourself said it was so big that nearly everyone has passed through it. The quote from Matthew stands. "Wide is the gate, and broad is the way", "and many there be that go in".

Originally posted by googlefudge
Says who?

Says who what?

Originally posted by Suzianne
Says who what?

Actually, it was Jesus talking. You know, the Sermon on the Mount?

Who says it was Jesus talking, and what he was saying...?

Cos I am pretty sure there is no book in the bible titled Jesus...


I think you will find the answer is .... Matthew, who is the one who [in stellspalfie's words]
needs to stop taking drugs and talking nonsense...

Originally posted by googlefudge

Actually, it was Jesus talking. You know, the Sermon on the Mount?

Who says it was Jesus talking, and what he was saying...?

Cos I am pretty sure there is no book in the bible titled Jesus...


I think you will find the answer is .... Matthew, who is the one who [in stellspalfie's words]
needs to stop taking drugs and talking nonsense...

Yes, it is Matthew's testimony. And an eye-witness' testimony of what a person said IS valid (not heresay) and accepted as evidence in a court of law.



There's no need to slander Matthew's reputation as a truthful eye-witness without cause or evidence.


You did notice what I did there, right? 🙂

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]"Does God exist?" Here are six straight-forward reasons to believe that God is really there. By Marilyn Adamson

"Just once wouldn't you love for someone to simply show you the evidence for God's existence? No arm-twisting. No statements of, "You just have to believe." Well, here is an attempt to candidly offer some of the reasons which sugges ...[text shortened]... live with Him forever in heaven. Faith alone in Christ alone is salvation. Your decision.[/b]

1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
If our planet was not sufficiently complex then we would not be here talking about its complexity. It just so happens that it is - not in any way suggestive of a deity.

2. Does God exist? The universe had a start - what caused it?
The topmost turtle atop a large tower of caused turtles dropped it. But seriously, if you are going to claim that the universe is caused, and that this supposed causation of the universe necessitates a causer, then what caused the causer? If you assert that the causer was uncaused then what is stopping me from countering that perhaps whatever non-godly entity caused our universe was itself uncaused? (an eternal frothing multiverse, say)

3. Does God exist? The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it?
Similar to 1. If the laws were un-uniform then we wouldn't be here to talk about their uniformity.

4. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.
So !?

5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.
Well you *say* he pursues us; how is this compelling to people like me that don't believe you?

6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing himself to us.
Similar to 5.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Yes, it is Matthew's testimony. And an eye-witness' testimony of what a person said IS valid (not heresay) and accepted as evidence in a court of law.



There's no need to slander Matthew's reputation as a truthful eye-witness without cause or evidence.


You did notice what I did there, right? 🙂

Yeah, I have a relative who works in a court of law.

Eye witness testimony is very frequently terrible, contradictory,
and inaccurate.... And that's even before people start lying.

And that's simply for trying to establish perfectly mundane facts
about everyday occurrences.


You are trying to claim eyewitness testimony, as being viable for
establishing extraordinary events, thousands of years ago, with
no ability to cross-examine the 'witnesses'. Witnesses who have
an incentive to exaggerate and lie.


No, that would not be accepted in court, and science uses much
higher standards anyway.


EDIT: I saw what you did.
And again you're misplacing the burden of proof.

Your challenge as the one claiming that Matthew is a reliable witness
of the things written in his book of the bible is to demonstrate with
evidence that he is in fact reliable. (and in this case that the person
Matthew actually existed. and that JC existed... ect)

I am simply pointing out all the ways eyewitness testimony is unreliable
at the best of times.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Yes, it is Matthew's testimony. And an eye-witness' testimony of what a person said IS valid (not heresay) and accepted as evidence in a court of law.
There's no need to slander Matthew's reputation as a truthful eye-witness without cause or evidence.


You did notice what I did there, right? 🙂

I hope you don't think Matthew wrote the gospel?

Written at least 50 years after the crucifixion by a follower of Matthew I
think it probably is closer to hearsay (or heresy) than eye-witness testimony.

We have to rely on Matthew's memory, Matthew's truthfulness, the
author's memory (of Matthew's stories) and the author's truthfulness.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Does God exist?

Just once wouldn't you love for someone to simply show you the evidence for God's existence? No arm-twisting. No statements of, "You just have to believe." Well, here is an attempt to candidly offer some of the reasons which suggest that God exists. But first consider this. When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, cal is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle." (Marilyn Adamson)

"Does God exist?"

4. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.

"Existence of God: All instruction, all teaching, all training comes with intent. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program? As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do. The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It's made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billion of these letters in every human cell!!

Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.

Existence of God: Why is this so amazing? One has to ask....how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.

Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it." (Marilyn Adamson)

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]"Does God exist?"

4. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.

"Existence of God: All instruction, all teaching, all training comes with intent. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a mini ...[text shortened]... precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it." (Marilyn Adamson)[/b]

Go read some Biology books and find out exactly how DNA can be formed entirely
by dumb natural processes.

Argument from ignorance is a terrible justification for belief in gods.

It also, btw doesn't get you to YOUR god.

The absolute best it could do is deism. And it fails at even doing that.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Go read some Biology books and find out exactly how DNA can be formed entirely
by dumb natural processes.

Argument from ignorance is a terrible justification for belief in gods.

It also, btw doesn't get you to YOUR god.

The absolute best it could do is deism. And it fails at even doing that.

"18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And the cleverness of the clever I will set aside.”

20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men." 1 Corinthians 1:18-25 New American Standard Bible

Originally posted by Suzianne
What? You said exactly the same thing.

Edit: Actually, it was Jesus talking. You know, the Sermon on the Mount?

well maybe i need to lay off the crystal meths then!!!


who was the eye witness to the sermon??

Originally posted by googlefudge
Go read some Biology books and find out exactly how DNA can be formed entirely
by dumb natural processes.

Argument from ignorance is a terrible justification for belief in gods.

It also, btw doesn't get you to YOUR god.

The absolute best it could do is deism. And it fails at even doing that.

Maybe God can be formed entirely by dumb natural processes too.

The Moron

Originally posted by RJHinds
Maybe God can be formed entirely by dumb natural processes too.

The Moron

All you have in your faith for your god is the word of other humans. Your god NEVER talked to you in your entire life and never will since it is a fairy tale in the first place.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Yes, it is Matthew's testimony. And an eye-witness' testimony of what a person said IS valid (not heresay) and accepted as evidence in a court of law.

The writer of the gospel of Matthew was not an eyewitness.