@secondson said
Is it neither here nor there, according to your perspective, because you're not "sure", and therefore you can't believe anyone else can be either?

I don't really care how "sure" you are about your speculations and aspirations when it comes to supernatural things. It doesn't affect me. I don't see how the degree to which I am "sure" about my beliefs affects you either.

@secondson said
Out of curiosity, do you believe that evolution will eventually lead to immortality?

No.

@fmf said
I don't really care how "sure" you are about your speculations and aspirations when it comes to supernatural things. It doesn't affect me. I don't see how the degree to which I am "sure" about my beliefs affects you either.

So you don't believe that certainty about beliefs is a factor with regards to debate about beliefs?

Seems odd that one can hold to a belief without being sure. For example: I'm absolutely and positively certain beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus rose bodily from the grave. If I weren't sure I wouldn't debate the question.

So while I'm confident in my beliefs, you don't care whether you're "sure" or not.

@FMF

@secondson said
Out of curiosity, do you believe that evolution will eventually lead to immortality?

@FMF said

No.

Seriously? I believe, if it were possible, science would eventually develop the medical technology to enable immortality. Mankind could very well achieve the infinite. Our current state of finiteness notwithstanding. Oh ye of little faith! 🙂

@secondson said
Out of curiosity, do you believe that evolution will eventually lead to immortality?

Once organic evolution reaches the technological level, a new stage of evolution begins, which can evolve millions of times faster... intelligent evolution, instead of trial-and-error evolution. Consider that we already created pocket devices that can hold 2 million books plus do video-chat across the globe; or virtual reality that looks nicer than the real thing. Now fast-forward a few centuries and consider what's possible ... your very consciousness and memories living in an immortal super-computer where you never die or go hungry. And I'm just scratching the surface of the possibilities.

@secondson said
So while I'm confident in my beliefs, you don't care whether you're "sure" or not.

You misunderstand. I don't care how "sure" YOU say you are.

@secondson said
'm absolutely and positively certain beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus rose bodily from the grave. If I weren't sure I wouldn't debate the question.

The fact that you say you are absolutely and positively certain beyond any shadow of a doubt does not make what you believe any more credible or persuasive to me.

@secondson said
For example: I'm absolutely and positively certain beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus rose bodily from the grave. If I weren't sure I wouldn't debate the question.

So while I'm confident in my beliefs, you don't care whether you're "sure" or not.

Do you think you would be 'absolutely and positively certain beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus rose bodily from the grave' if say you had been born and grew up in India, or Japan or Afganistan? May you not, for example, be just as enthusiastically stating (with your chest puffed out) that you were 'absolutely and positively certain beyond any shadow of a doubt that' you would be reincarnated after death?

Geography it appears would seem to be a significant factor in your assured Christianity.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Do you think you would be 'absolutely and positively certain beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus rose bodily from the grave' if say you had been born and grew up in India, or Japan or Afganistan? May you not, for example, be just as enthusiastically stating (with your chest puffed out) that you were 'absolutely and positively certain beyond any shadow of a doubt t ...[text shortened]... r death?

Geography it appears would seem to be a significant factor in your assured Christianity.

There are Christians born and raised there that also hold to the same beliefs. It isn't geographic locations that matter.

@kellyjay said
There are Christians born and raised there that also hold to the same beliefs. It isn't geographic locations that matter.

You don't think geography matters when you see 87% of Indonesians are Muslims and 78% of Italians are Catholics?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Do you think you would be 'absolutely and positively certain beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus rose bodily from the grave' if say you had been born and grew up in India, or Japan or Afganistan? May you not, for example, be just as enthusiastically stating (with your chest puffed out) that you were 'absolutely and positively certain beyond any shadow of a doubt t ...[text shortened]... r death?

Geography it appears would seem to be a significant factor in your assured Christianity.

You believe people are purely determined, and we have no real choice in life? Are you suggesting, we are going to be whatever we are simply according to our geography, and I suppose our DNA? Do you accept we have nothing but delusions of choice and free will?

@bunnyknight said
Once organic evolution reaches the technological level, a new stage of evolution begins, which can evolve millions of times faster... intelligent evolution, instead of trial-and-error evolution. Consider that we already created pocket devices that can hold 2 million books plus do video-chat across the globe; or virtual reality that looks nicer than the real thing. Now ...[text shortened]... omputer where you never die or go hungry. And I'm just scratching the surface of the possibilities.

Tools are just devices that can be used towards any end, including the end of mankind, the possibilities I think we can look at our past and see what we tend to do.

@kellyjay said
You believe people are purely determined, and we have no real choice in life? Are you suggesting, we are going to be whatever we are simply according to our geography, and I suppose our DNA? Do you accept we have nothing but delusions of choice and free will?

Is this supposed to be an 'argument' rebutting that fact that the factor of geography is obviously a huge determinant of what religions people profess?

@kellyjay said
There are Christians born and raised there that also hold to the same beliefs. It isn't geographic locations that matter.

You don't think if you were born and raised in India, for example, there is a far higher likelihood you wouldn't be here today preaching the virtue's of Hinduism, the religion you had been immersed in all your life?

No? Why then are there more Hindus in India than Christians, if geography isn't a factor?

Edit: I don't think you have thought this through Kelly.

2nd edit: At all.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
You don't think if you were born and raised in India, for example, there is a far higher likelihood you wouldn't be here today preaching the virtue's of Hinduism, the religion you had been immersed in all your life?

No? Why then are there more Hindus in India than Christians, if geography isn't a factor?

Edit: I don't think you have thought this through Kelly.

That is not addressing my question.
Do we have a say or is it all due to geography and DNA?
Granted it can be easy to go along and just take what your told as truth.
Difficulty arises is when that truth doesn't follow the path we are going along with to get along.

If we are just products of nature, do we have a choice that matters, any choice?
Only when we include truth and error does it matter, if it doesn't matter, why argue?

I didn't become a Christian until I was 25 and I did not grow up in a Christian home, not even close.