1. Standard membertelerion
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    04 Nov '05 18:33
    For those xians who believe that we are all born with original sin (and there are many who do), is it the case that when a seemingly uninteresting bodily fluid (semen) encounters an otherwise ordinary piece of body tissue (egg), the combo is raised to cosmic status and immediately judged a wicked, sinful creature in the eyes of God?
  2. Standard memberwib
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    04 Nov '05 18:43
    Originally posted by telerion
    For those xians who believe that we are all born with original sin (and there are many who do), is it the case that when a seemingly uninteresting bodily fluid (semen) encounters an otherwise ordinary piece of body tissue (egg), the combo is raised to cosmic status and immediately judged a wicked, sinful creature in the eyes of God?
    LOL! Oh man, I can't wait to see where this goes.
  3. Forgotten
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    04 Nov '05 19:04
    wouldnt the term "original sin" referr to the sin that caused the fall of man? ie the eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil???many theologians define sin as "willfull disobedience to gods law." hard to see a baby knowing these terms dont you think?
  4. Gangster Land
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    04 Nov '05 19:161 edit
    Originally posted by aspviper666
    wouldnt the term "original sin" referr to the sin that caused the fall of man? ie the eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil???many theologians define sin as "willfull disobedience to gods law." hard to see a baby knowing these terms dont you think?
    I think what he is asking is in light of Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Who is all? Is the mass of tissue that results after copulation considered sinful?

    TheSkipper

    EDIT: For more biblical refrences to the idea that all have sinned please see Romans 3:9-10 and Psalms 14:3. If you would like to see biblical refrences for the opposite point of view please see Job 1:1 and Luke 1:5-6. What a goofy book. 😉
  5. Forgotten
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    04 Nov '05 19:24
    hows gilligan??lol jk
  6. Standard membertelerion
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    04 Nov '05 19:35
    Originally posted by aspviper666
    wouldnt the term "original sin" referr to the sin that caused the fall of man? ie the eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil???many theologians define sin as "willfull disobedience to gods law." hard to see a baby knowing these terms dont you think?
    Yes, technically i should call it the "sin nature," but that sort of gives the question away.

    I want to know why so many RR feti sympathizers don't realize that they are fighting for microscopic bundles of evil?
  7. Subscriberno1marauder
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    04 Nov '05 19:41
    Originally posted by telerion
    Yes, technically i should call it the "sin nature," but that sort of gives the question away.

    I want to know why so many RR feti sympathizers don't realize that they are fighting for microscopic bundles of evil?
    KellyJay has generously pointed out this Scripture:

    Jeremiah 1:5
    "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I
    set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."


    Since God knows you even BEFORE your conception, you must be in a state of original sin even before you exist.
  8. Standard memberwib
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    04 Nov '05 19:54
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    KellyJay has generously pointed out this Scripture:

    Jeremiah 1:5
    "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I
    set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."


    Since God knows you even BEFORE your conception, you must be in a state of original sin even before you exist.
    Ah, and the plot thickens...
  9. Standard membertelerion
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    04 Nov '05 19:58
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    KellyJay has generously pointed out this Scripture:

    Jeremiah 1:5
    "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I
    set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."


    Since God knows you even BEFORE your conception, you must be in a state of original sin even before you exist.
    Excellent point. A brother just can't get a break anymore. I guess he/she never could.
  10. Standard memberHalitose
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    04 Nov '05 20:07
    Originally posted by telerion
    For those xians who believe that we are all born with original sin (and there are many who do), is it the case that when a seemingly uninteresting bodily fluid (semen) encounters an otherwise ordinary piece of body tissue (egg), the combo is raised to cosmic status and immediately judged a wicked, sinful creature in the eyes of God?
    Tel, you should know this... we are not born with sin, but into sin. As fallen creatures our nature has a proclivity towards sin, but it isn't sin of itself.
  11. Subscriberno1marauder
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    04 Nov '05 20:19
    Originally posted by Halitose
    Tel, you should know this... we are not born [b]with sin, but into sin. As fallen creatures our nature has a proclivity towards sin, but it isn't sin of itself.[/b]
    Don't you mean "we are not CONCEIVED with sin, but into sin"? Is that a Freudian slip?
  12. Standard memberHalitose
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    04 Nov '05 20:27
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Don't you mean "we are not CONCEIVED with sin, but into sin"? Is that a Freudian slip?
    Lol. It is debatable from which age or rational stage one would consider someone capable of sinning... but its definitely after birth IMO.
  13. Subscriberno1marauder
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    04 Nov '05 20:363 edits
    Originally posted by Halitose
    Lol. It is debatable from which age or rational stage one would consider someone capable of sinning... but its definitely after birth IMO.
    IF human nature is inherently "base" or "evil" and IF from the moment of conception a fully human entity exists, than that entity must be capable of sin as it is by nature sinful.

    EDIT: According to Luther and Calvin according to Wikipedia:

    The notions of original sin as interpreted by Augustine of Hippo were affirmed by Protestant Reformers Martin Luther and John Calvin. Both Luther and Calvin agreed that humans inherit Adamic guilt and are in a state of sin from the moment of conception. This inherently sinful nature (the basis for the Calvinistic doctrine of "total depravity"😉 results in a complete alienation from God and the total inability of humans to achieve reconciliation with God based on their own abilities.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin#Original_sin_in_Protestantism

    EDITEDIT: Of course, your basic sinful nature or "total depravity" would exist even before you do in KellyJayology.
  14. Standard membertelerion
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    04 Nov '05 20:382 edits
    Originally posted by Halitose
    Lol. It is debatable from which age or rational stage one would consider someone capable of sinning... but its definitely after birth IMO.
    So then does the Bible not mean "all" when it says "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"?

    Does "all" mean "all of some people but definitely not all people"?

    Edit: Conjectures about the "age of accountability" as it is often called always seem extra-Biblical and essentially a disguised argument over what that xian would do is (s)he were God. Basically, I think it boils down to comparing mental idols.
  15. Standard memberHalitose
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    04 Nov '05 21:46
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Don't you mean "we are not CONCEIVED with sin, but into sin"? Is that a Freudian slip?
    Actually I was just quoting Tel...
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