1. Joined
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    16 Jul '05 23:15
    the following exchange took place in a past thread (http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=24006&page=4):

    LemonJello (directing question at an ardent believer): 'i'd like to ask you a question, seriously. have there been times when you have been skeptical of your own faith? have you ever thought, even fleetingly, that maybe it is all just a big lie, that maybe the bible is wrong, jesus lied, or maybe god doesn't even exist? do you think such skepticism can ever be healthy or good?'

    ardent believer's response: 'No I have never lost my faith even for a moment. I have always looked at THE WORD OF GOD, as a source of wisdom and undestanding. And I have never found any of that wisdom and undestanding to be untrue.'

    at the time, and still now, i find this response a bit difficult to believe. i wanted to pose a few questions to any believers (of any faith based religion) who feel so inclined to respond. feel free to be honest:

    1. have you ever doubted your faith? do you doubt your faith on a regular basis? if not, how are you not exhibiting close-mindedness?

    2. if there are moments when you doubt, do you think god frowns upon such moments? if he does, then why would there be reason to believe this type of doubt is wrong or unjustified?

    3. do you think there are cicumstances when doubt in your faith can be healthy or beneficial?
  2. Joined
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    16 Jul '05 23:33
    1. yes
    2. no
    3. yes
    Everyone should have doubts, and also be curious. The same for science. No one should accept anything as true unless they truly think about it and substantiate it for themselves. I didn't choose to be Christian because of its creaionalist beliefs but on its teachings on morality, which i believe are right. I think there is a God but i'm not so sure that Jesus is it however i do believe that his teachings were as close as anyone could get.
  3. Standard memberOmnislash
    Digital Blasphemy
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    17 Jul '05 04:01
    Not only do I doubt, I doubt often. I think this is healthy. After all, if you believe in something you inherently doubt the converse, and thusly it is only by doubt that such affirmations are achieved (I hope that wasn't too convoluted). I do not think God would think ill of such doubts. He knows what it is to be human and attempting to figure it all out. Quite to the contrary, I should think God would welcome the questioning of his creation, for it is only by questioning that we learn.
  4. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
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    17 Jul '05 16:40
    Originally posted by LemonJello
    the following exchange took place in a past thread (http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=24006&page=4):

    LemonJello (directing question at an ardent believer): 'i'd like to ask you a question, seriously. have there been times when you have been skeptical of your own faith? have you ever thought, even fleetingly, that maybe it is all ...[text shortened]...

    3. do you think there are cicumstances when doubt in your faith can be healthy or beneficial?
    1. No, have not doubted my faith, that is that God is who the scripture
    tells us He is. Closemindedness, I attempt as much as I can to look
    at things the way the other people I am talking to look at things. This
    think one must do if one is ever to grasp where the other people are
    coming from.
    I don't do not think knowing something closes one's mind to all else,
    it may be tested it may be attacked and it shouldn't be accepted just
    because either. I believe closed mindedness is refusing to move away
    from a position if that position is proven wrong, also if one refuses
    to even acknowledge weaknesses right before it too.
    2. I think we all go through times of great testing, and doubt about
    one own self may come in, or one's worth. The testing is the doubt
    at times, and I believe if I may use a poker term, the devils goal is
    to put people on 'tilt' so that he may apply pressure to cause them
    to fall away from God.
    3. You questions and my answers are not very good at desribing life
    and what goes on with faith, doubt, fear and so on. Doubt can be an
    attack of the enemy, as the serpent telling Eve, "You will not die.."
    So going through times like that isn't a failure, it is life where we are
    now. It is a good thing to go through a trial, and see God being
    faithful.
    Kelly
  5. Joined
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    18 Jul '05 07:091 edit
    Originally posted by Conrau K, Omnislash, and KellyJay
    thanks much for your replies.

    from what i gather, you generally endorse the notion that doubt is not inherently detrimental; additionally, god would also exhibit some measure of tolerance toward the doubts you harbor.

    however, it seems to me that there must be some limit to god's tolerance concerning the existence of doubt. if you were to hold extensive doubt, you could conceivably reach a point where continuing to cling to your faith would be hypocritical in god's judgment; at some point, you might even feel inclined to recant your belief. clearly, god cannot accomodate this behavior. so where do you think god draws the line? how much doubt can he tolerate before it threatens his good nature? how do you know that the doubt you entertain currently is not sufficient to make you a hypocrite in god's eyes?

    it seems like it may be an important question because the notion that 'anyone who believes will be saved' makes an assumption that said belief is sufficiently genuine.
  6. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
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    18 Jul '05 16:201 edit
    Originally posted by LemonJello
    thanks much for your replies.

    from what i gather, you generally endorse the notion that doubt is not inherently detrimental; additionally, god would also exhibit some measure of tolerance toward the doubts you harbor.

    however, it ...[text shortened]... ed' makes an assumption that said belief is sufficiently genuine.
    I honestly believe that God knows our frame, what we are made of
    and because of that God knows how far we are able to go.

    Let me ask your view on a passage of scripture of the O.T. do you
    think they are expressing doubt, at least in what was going to happen
    to them?

    Daniel 3

    13 Furious with rage, Nebuchadnezzar summoned Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. So these men were brought before the king, 14 and Nebuchadnezzar said to them, "Is it true, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, that you do not serve my gods or worship the image of gold I have set up? 15 Now when you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipes and all kinds of music, if you are ready to fall down and worship the image I made, very good. But if you do not worship it, you will be thrown immediately into a blazing furnace. Then what god will be able to rescue you from my hand?"

    16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to the king, "O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to save us from it, and he will rescue us from your hand, O king. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, O king, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up."

    I believe that God deals in only one thing, truth. Being authentic is
    very important, we can be mistaken, but at times our mistakes can
    be honest ones, while other times we may actively seek to make sure
    that our positions are guaranteed solid even if they are not, which
    is not authentic or honest; choosing to ignore that which questions
    our ‘truth’ and so on. Doubt can be there yet it simply is a matter of
    not being sure what is to come, or why. Just as the people in this
    passage, they were standing in the face of death not knowing what
    God would do; which means they could have had doubt about what
    was about to happen, yet in the face of it they were going to be
    faithful.

    My doubt at times is normally about me or what is going to happen,
    not so much God, I count on God being who He is, and that He keeps
    His promises. I hope that makes sense.
    Kelly
  7. Joined
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    20 Jul '05 01:21
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I honestly believe that God knows our frame, what we are made of
    and because of that God knows how far we are able to go.

    Let me ask your view on a passage of scripture of the O.T. do you
    think they are expressing doubt, at least in what was going to happen
    to them?

    Daniel 3

    13 Furious with rage, Nebuchadnezzar summoned Shadrach, Meshach and ...[text shortened]... count on God being who He is, and that He keeps
    His promises. I hope that makes sense.
    Kelly
    okay, thanks -- good post.

    i better understand now the nature of the 'doubt' to which you refer.
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