(I need to get a life!..the eagerly awaited part 4.......)
Man “ ....so why does it all sound so illogical to us.....it's frustrating and confusing”
Dr Who “ ...do you like acting?”
Man” ....I used to perform at the local until the church banned my impressions of the Pope”
Dr Who “ Good....let's try a mini play then.....there are two characters a circle and a sphere...you have to imagine the circle drawn on a flat piece of paper and the piece of paper passing through the sphere in a cross section ( a bit like you have chopped an orange in half and put one half under the paper and the other half above it.) ....”
Man “ What do I say ?”
Dr Who (Hands the man some sheets of paper) “Here ..I've got it all written out ...just follow the script”
(Dr Who gets himself into role and prepares to play the role of sphere...while the man learns his lines with the help of Dr Who's instant ' memory –o-tron' )
Circle (Man) “....hello sphere I'm glad to meet you on such a nice day....still.... I wish I knew more about what you were...you're a sort of circle right?”
Sphere (Dr Who)” No...I'm not a circle ..but well yes I am in a way...I'm lots of circles..”
Circle (Man) “ But when I see you , you are a circle just like me ...how can you be many circles all at once....it still makes no sense to me”
Sphere (Dr Who) “ That's because you are not thinking upwards and outwards about circles...”
Circle (Man) “ ...Now ..I've told you about this before..you always do this....don't go starting this upwards , downwards , above, below stuff...it's magic and you know it......explain it to me in simple logical terms. “
Sphere (Dr Who) “ Ok , let me try something.....but you are going to find it weird...” ( The sphere starts moving up and down through the piece of paper)
Circle (Man) “ Woooooow.....I've never seen a circle do that before .......how do you make yourself bigger and then smaller like that and then bigger again.....!”
Sphere(Dr Who) “ It's like I said before.... I am lots of circles all at once...in a way I suppose”
Circle (Man) (recovering from shock)”......phew!......you are weird...it's amazing how you do that...I understand what a sphere is now...you're an amazing circle who can change size at will..(thinks).........but this stuff about being lots of circles all at once...that's still wrong....in fact it's contradictory nonsense...it doesn't add up...no circle can be lots of different circles all at once......you've boxed yourself into an illogical corner with that one”
Sphere (Dr Who) “No I am not a circle who can change size but I am lots of different circles all at once and I understand why that's hard to think about for you but that doesn't mean it's illogical...it just means that from your perspective and dimension you have very little way of relating to it...however....I want you to try and imagine that there is a smaller circle balanced on top of you and then another smaller one on top of that....so you keep going until you get to the top ...”
Circle(Man) “ I'm not listening to this magic ...I've heard these funny words like “on top” and “above” before and it's all magic to me!...when are you going to start using proper language like 'in front of' or 'behind'?...say something that makes sense to me for a change.....you spheres are all the same ....whenever us circles ask you for rational explanations of what a sphere is you start talking this magic rubbish....you can't be two circles at the same time every one knows that's contradictory...”
Sphere (Dr Who)” Nevertheless that's what I am and much more besides...I am in your dimension as a circle but I can also be in many other dimensions as other circles..and in another way I am not really a circle at all...I agree that some spheres have a tendency to say 'look that's just the way it is ...you just have to accept it' but I am not doing that...I am trying to use the limits of your dimensional logic to explain who I am ...you are going to need a bit of imagination I'm afraid....”
Circle (Man) “ ...pah! ..imagination? .....give me logic every time!..”
Sphere(Dr Who) “ ...do you remember when you tried to explain to dot about what a circle was and you asked him to imagine thousands of dots all joined up in a line..”
Circle(Man) “......yes I remember ...(laughs).....he didn't get it ....especially when I said that the line wasn't straight and it joined up behind him....he nearly freaked....!..and when I told him that I had no beginning or end ...well he just walked off”
MAN – puts down his script- “Ah....I get it now ...there's a kind of Probability of Impossibility when it comes to explaining another dimension like eternity.....it HAS to be impossible in a way”
Dr Who - “ the penny is starting to drop eh?......although that doesn't mean it's totally illogical ..it's just that it defies our dimensional logic....we can't think logically how God can know what we are going to do tomorrow and it be a free choice because we can't logically think what it's like to not look along a time line like ours. It's also hard to imagine how he could be both omniscient and not omniscient all at the same time....we are circles...he is a sphere...but we can imagine...because supposedly he put a bit of “sphere” into us to help us imagine ”
Man “...so eternity is kind of.....(struggles for the words) ....logically illogical...?”
Dr Who “.....well done......now ...fancy a game of chess?”
Originally posted by knightmeisterA two dimensional person could easily describe a sphere mathematically, just as we now can describe fourth dimensional objects mathematically. Can you do the same for God?
(I need to get a life!..the eagerly awaited part 4.......)
Man “ ....so why does it all sound so illogical to us.....it's frustrating and confusing”
Dr Who “ ...do you like acting?”
Man” ....I used to perform at the local until the church banned my impressions of the Pope”
Dr Who “ Good....let's try a mini play then.....there are two char ...[text shortened]... ..well done......now ...fancy a game of chess?”
Originally posted by AThousandYoungthe man was acting as a circle, who could not understand a sphere. you just said a 2d person can understand the third dimension, now you say the story says it when neither is true.
I didn't write the story. Tell that to the author.
Edit: you got me with the part about how we can describe the fourth dimension lol
Originally posted by EcstremeVenomYou really do need to understand analogies a bit better. They only work on certain levels. It's a story for pete's sake and you are treating it like a mathematical thesis. !!!
the man was acting as a circle, who could not understand a sphere. you just said a 2d person can understand the third dimension, now you say the story says it when neither is true.
Edit: you got me with the part about how we can describe the fourth dimension lol
It's an illustration of the reasons why we might find God a bit illogical because of him being in a dimension beyond ours.
Originally posted by knightmeisterHow many dimensions does God possess?
You really do need to understand analogies a bit better. They only work on certain levels. It's a story for pete's sake and you are treating it like a mathematical thesis. !!!
It's an illustration of the reasons why we might find God a bit illogical because of him being in a dimension beyond ours.
Can you show me the three dimensional projection of God? In the story the circle was able to see the two dimensional projection of the sphere.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungI would say the three dimensional projection of God would be Jesus. Jesus existed in space/ time in three dimensions but also was part of eternity. He had an earthly life but also claimed a life beyond time and space "Before Abraham was , I AM" (at which point the religious leaders started to stone him for blasphemy). Jesus is what eternity looks like when it dips its toes in space/time in human form.
How many dimensions does God possess?
Can you show me the three dimensional projection of God? In the story the circle was able to see the two dimensional projection of the sphere.
I have no idea how many dimensions God might exist in or even whether eternity could be technically described as a "dimension" as such. What I could be certain about is that if God exists then he exists in a radically different plane of existence (dimension) than us , and it is beyond the restrictions of time as we know it.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungMy story also assumes a circle can talk??!!
Your story assumes there are.
Anyway , the circle probably could have a go at describing a sphere mathematically but I still doubt whether it would make much sense to most of us.
If the circle did describe the sphere mathematically he would still have to apply a different set of rules and a different kind of mathematical logic to describe the sphere ---which is exactly my point --extra dimensions cannot be described entirely using limited logic. This is why we must not be surprised that concepts of eternity overturn our 3/4 dimensional logic,......it's to be expected!!