@fmf saidI had to read your question a few times to fully comprehend it.
A lot of theists perceive the world as a dystopia. Amidst all this [and, perhaps, as a kind of countermeasure], do theist beliefs ~ with all the aspirations and meaning attendant thereto ~ create a kind of personal psychological/spiritual utopia?
Can I check, are you asking if being a theist permits the theist to create an imaginary utopia somewhere in the future, or one in which they live and breath, now, here in this life?
Thanks.
08 May 21
@divegeester saidThe exact nature of the "personal psychological/spiritual utopia" [in the context of the alleged dystopia all around] will vary from person to person.
are you asking if being a theist permits the theist to create an imaginary utopia somewhere in the future, or one in which they live and breath, now, here in this life?
Thanks.
For some, that "personal utopia" might be something found sitting all alone at the top of a pole for 40 years, praying, and anticipating immortality.
For others, the "personal utopia" might be the source of spiritual energy ~ solace, contentment, purpose ~ that enables one to work 18 hours a day building schools in Africa with unflagging joie de vivre.
So, what this utopia consists of, or what effect it has, would be in the eye of the beholder.
08 May 21
@fmf saidWell for me personally, I don’t experience much utopia in my secular existence here on earth, but I do hold of a hope of better existence in the after life.
So, what this utopia consists of, or what effect it has, would be in the eye of the beholder.
To experience a utopia (such as it is) here on earth, I don’t think one has to be a theist. I think atheists can build schools in Africa and find a utopian level of existential bliss. As can an atheist sitting up a pole for 40 years contemplating mindfulness.
08 May 21
@divegeester saidBut the OP question is about theists and not atheists. As it says: "A lot of theists perceive the world as a dystopia."
To experience a utopia (such as it is) here on earth, I don’t think one has to be a theist.
The question then is about the extent to which one's theist/religious beliefs can act as a "countermeasure" in the face of the dystopia that they see as surrounding them.
So, this is NOT a question intended for theists who don't see the world as a dystopia. It also NOT a question intended for atheists.
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A lot of theists perceive the world as a dystopia.
Name a few.
A lot of people of any and all and no particular persuasion see some problems with the world around them.
Maybe if you remove the question mark and just state what it is you wish to state about theists it would be clearer.
19 May 21
@sonship saidBut that's what it is. It is a clear statement about theists that I wish to make. There is no question mark to remove.
@FMFA lot of theists perceive the world as a dystopia.
Maybe if you remove the question mark and just state what it is you wish to state about theists it would be clearer.
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19 May 21
2 edits
@FMF
Ah, You're right this time.
I meant this.
Amidst all this [and, perhaps, as a kind of countermeasure], do theist beliefs ~ with all the aspirations and meaning attendant thereto ~ create a kind of personal psychological/spiritual utopia?
Nod yes dutifully?
19 May 21
@sonship saidIt's the OP question. That's why it has a question mark at the end.
I meant this.Amidst all this [and, perhaps, as a kind of countermeasure], do theist beliefs ~ with all the aspirations and meaning attendant thereto ~ create a kind of personal psychological/spiritual utopia?
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19 May 21
2 edits
create a kind of personal psychological/spiritual utopia?
When Paul wrote the First Corinthian letter there were around 500 people still living who could vouch for or against his assertion that Jesus rose from the dead.
Do you think these 500 some people were all under an identical create a kind of " personal psychological/spiritual utopia?"
Was this a collective personal psychologically created utopia 500 people were having simultaneously? I am not asking about any other event in history. I am not asking about Islam, appearances of Mary, or claims of Mormonism now. I am asking specifically about the event referred to in First Corinthians 15.
" . . . He [Christ] appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve; Then He appeared to over five hundred brothers at one time, of whom the majority remain until now, but some have fallen asleep [died]. Then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles." (1 Cor. 15:5-7)
Was this a mass collective simultaneous instance of creating a "personal psychological/spiritual utopia? "
19 May 21
@sonship saidThe OP is about whether or not believing the same thing as what those 500 people are said to have believed creates a kind of personal utopia that provides a form of coping mechanism or protection against the perceived dystopia of the world.
Was this a collective personal psychologically created utopia 500 people were having simultaneously? I am not asking about any other event in history.
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20 May 21
4 edits
@fmf saidClaiming in public that most of the 500 are still alive to deny or confirm the report is not inconsequential.
Someone claiming that 500 people had witnessed something is only one supposed witness and not 500 of them.
Like it or not First Corinthians is a historical document.
I know to the Christian it is sacred text. But it is also a historical document which can be evaluated purely on those grounds by historians.
The audience must have known some of these witnesses.
It was adequate for Paul simply to remind them that most of them were still alive.
By reading carefully the SECOND letter to the Corinthians, we can ascertain by the discussion WHAT issues the audience of the FIRST letter must have raised. And raise they did some issues previously talked about.
Interestingly, one of those many issues brought up was NOT - Ie. "Hey Paul, those 500 eyewitnesses you mentioned ?? Quite a few said they had no idea what you were talking about concerning Jesus rising from the dead."
That kind of skepticism is NOT raised Second Corinthian letter. However ample suspicions still lingered that Paul was maybe taking advantage of them or not the real apostle like other evangelists that came through Corinth were. Paul is still compelled to address their suspicion about his spiritual authority. But that suspicion DID NOT include anything he had claimed about Christ's resurrection.
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20 May 21
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The OP is about whether or not believing the same thing as what those 500 people are said to have believed creates a kind of personal utopia that provides a form of coping mechanism or protection against the perceived dystopia of the world.
Truth and reality can indeed be a "coping mechanism" especially in a world run amuck with lies.
What unwritten rule holds that a "coping mechanism" must necessarily be based on fictitious imagination?
Sure, Jesus overcame the grave.
"Fear not. I have overcome the world" He said before His ordeal.
That belief in His victory over sin and death was a "coping mechanism" is right on.
Because of many assurance that He had raised they were enabled to face great
opposition, torture, persecution and death.
During the weeks following Christ's resurrection and His ascension he trained the disciples to live by His invisible presence. He trained them well that though they could not always see Him, He was with them and even until the consummation of the age. He spent weeks to train them that He lived in them and was with them.
A divine "coping mechanism" from God experienced thousands of Jerusalem Jews as the foundation of the Christian church.