1. SubscriberFMF
    Main Poster
    This Thread
    Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    29835
    28 Nov '09 01:03
    Yesterday was a national holiday here in Indonesia as people celebrated "Eid al-Adha" or "Idul Adha" as thye call it here.

    It commemorates the Old Testament story in which Abraham is willing to to sacrifice his son as an act of obedience to God.

    Wikipedia:

    At the time of sacrifice, Abraham discovered a sheep died instead of Ismail, whom he hacked through neck. When Abraham was fully prepared to complete the sacrifice, Allah revealed to him that his "sacrifice" had already been fulfilled. Abraham had shown that his love for his Lord superseded all others: that he would lay down his own life or the lives of those dear to him in order to submit to God.


    This explains the tradition here of slaughtering a goat and sharing the meat with neighbours.

    My question is: Why don't Christians (and Jews, for that matter) also celebrate this highly significant Old Testament story?
  2. Standard memberRajk999
    Enjoying
    On the Beach
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    170571
    28 Nov '09 01:27
    Originally posted by FMF
    Yesterday was a national holiday here in Indonesia as people celebrated "Eid al-Adha" or "Idul Adha" as thye call it here.

    It commemorates the Old Testament story in which Abraham is willing to to sacrifice his son as an act of obedience to God.

    Wikipedia:

    [quote]At the time of sacrifice, Abraham discovered a sheep died instead of Ismail, whom he hacke ...[text shortened]... s (and Jews, for that matter) also celebrate this highly significant Old Testament story?
    Been racking my little brain for the last 10 minutes and I cant remember any instruction from Christ to celebrate any 'significant story', except for breaking of bread and drinking of wine in remembrance of his death.

    So from a purely Christian standpoint no such celebrations have religious significance but are simply the result of cultural or personal preferences.
  3. SubscriberFMF
    Main Poster
    This Thread
    Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    29835
    28 Nov '09 01:36
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    ...from a purely Christian standpoint no such celebrations have religious significance but are simply the result of cultural or personal preferences.
    So, in your view, things like Christmas, Easter, Lent, Advent and so on, are all commemorations/celebrations resulting from cultural or personal preferences and have no religious significance?
  4. Standard memberRajk999
    Enjoying
    On the Beach
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    170571
    28 Nov '09 01:43
    Originally posted by FMF
    So, in your view, things like Christmas, Easter, Lent, Advent and so on, are all commemorations/celebrations resulting from cultural or personal preferences and have no religious significance?
    None. They have no bearing on anyone's salvation. They have religious origins but no religious significance in my opinion. Certainly it wont count against you .. Christ wont say " .. hey . FMF you celebrated Christmas so go straight to hell".

    They are just selfish, 'feel good' activities. Much like how someone bypasses the poor and needy on the street and head straight for the nice church on the village square to listen to nice music and put $20. in the collection plate.
  5. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    28 Nov '09 01:492 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    Yesterday was a national holiday here in Indonesia as people celebrated "Eid al-Adha" or "Idul Adha" as thye call it here.

    It commemorates the Old Testament story in which Abraham is willing to to sacrifice his son as an act of obedience to God.

    Wikipedia:

    [quote]At the time of sacrifice, Abraham discovered a sheep died instead of Ismail, whom he hacke s (and Jews, for that matter) also celebrate this highly significant Old Testament story?
    As far as i am aware FMF there is no mandate in either the Koran, nor the Hebrew scriptures of the Bible, nor in the Greek writings of the Apostles to celebrate this festival. It is exclusively an Islamic tradition.
  6. SubscriberFMF
    Main Poster
    This Thread
    Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    29835
    28 Nov '09 01:59
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    It is exclusively an Islamic tradition.
    Why do you think that is? Is the story any less significant for Christians? Or is it a case of Muslims perhaps blowing a relative non-event from the OT out of proportion? What is the significance of Abraham's actions and God's decision (in this story) to Christians?
  7. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    28 Nov '09 02:28
    Originally posted by FMF
    Why do you think that is? Is the story any less significant for Christians? Or is it a case of Muslims perhaps blowing a relative non-event from the OT out of proportion? What is the significance of Abraham's actions and God's decision (in this story) to Christians?
    As you know in Pakistan, as elsewhere in the Muslim world, this festival is celebrated, as you describe, however, i have spoken to some on the subject and as far as i can discern there is no Koranic reference for it. There may be in the Hadith, i do not know, but it seems to me, that like many festivals of other religions, its basis is not scriptural but through some cultural tradition.

    its significance to Christians is that it provides an anti typical representation of the sacrifice of Christ, for we have the father Abraham, the willing son Isaac, and in the case of the Bible a sheep was substituted. The great wonder for me is, what significance this holds for Muslims, is it faith in God on the part of Abraham?, obedience to God? infact does not Islam state that it was Ishmael that was offered instead of Issac?
  8. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    28 Nov '09 17:47
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Been racking my little brain for the last 10 minutes and I cant remember any instruction from Christ to celebrate any 'significant story', except for breaking of bread and drinking of wine in remembrance of his death.

    So from a purely Christian standpoint no such celebrations have religious significance but are simply the result of cultural or personal preferences.
    But your religion comes from Judaism so to dismiss anything just because Christ didn't mention it doesn't seem to make sense. Surely the God in the old Testament was the same God? Surely anything he said back then carries the same weight as when he said something later in the form of Christ? Or was the OT God inferior?
    I am sure the Christ himself celebrated all the Jewish festivals, preached that one should follow the scriptures, and probably thought it was not necessary to list all the practices required of a Jew.
  9. Standard memberRajk999
    Enjoying
    On the Beach
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    170571
    28 Nov '09 18:11
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    But your religion comes from Judaism so to dismiss anything just because Christ didn't mention it doesn't seem to make sense. Surely the God in the old Testament was the same God? Surely anything he said back then carries the same weight as when he said something later in the form of Christ? Or was the OT God inferior?
    I am sure the Christ himself celebr ...[text shortened]... ptures, and probably thought it was not necessary to list all the practices required of a Jew.
    Wrong. Christianity does not come from Judaism.
    Christianity comes from the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul and others, who were sent to preach to the Gentiles.
  10. At the Revolution
    Joined
    15 Sep '07
    Moves
    5073
    28 Nov '09 19:12
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    None. They have no bearing on anyone's salvation. They have religious origins but no religious significance in my opinion. Certainly it wont count against you .. Christ wont say " .. hey . FMF you celebrated Christmas so go straight to hell".

    They are just selfish, 'feel good' activities. Much like how someone bypasses the poor and needy on the street an ...[text shortened]... church on the village square to listen to nice music and put $20. in the collection plate.
    Which also explains why Islam only has four major holidays.

    And I don't really consider Yom Kippur, Ramadan, or Lent "feel-good" holidays.

    To answer the original question: the reason we celebrate it and you don't is twofold.

    1. We follow a lunar calendar, which is the calendar followed by people in Abraham's time (although I don't think they counted years). You all have no idea where it goes on the lunar calendar, and you can't steal another pagan holiday to celebrate it, so you just don't bother.
    2. Come on now! We only have four holidays, and one of them involves hunkering up for a month of not eating during the daytime! Let us celebrate what we can here while you all celebrate Easter, Christmas, Lent, Carnival, Good Friday, etc. etc. etc.
  11. Standard membermenace71
    Can't win a game of
    38N Lat X 121W Lon
    Joined
    03 Apr '03
    Moves
    140206
    29 Nov '09 18:57
    It's to reflect upon the fact that God provided the sacrifice for man and not the other way around. The place was called and the Lord will provide. My Muslim friend at work said at Eid as he called it they would celebrate with their family and have a feast kinda like Thanksgiving. However I don't thing there is some mandate that says you must celebrate or else!



    Manny.
  12. At the Revolution
    Joined
    15 Sep '07
    Moves
    5073
    29 Nov '09 22:04
    Originally posted by menace71
    It's to reflect upon the fact that God provided the sacrifice for man and not the other way around. The place was called and the Lord will provide. My Muslim friend at work said at Eid as he called it they would celebrate with their family and have a feast kinda like Thanksgiving. However I don't thing there is some mandate that says you must celebrate or else!



    Manny.
    What fool wouldn't celebrate a holiday with food?? Come on, now ... we don't need decrees to celebrate this!
  13. Standard membermenace71
    Can't win a game of
    38N Lat X 121W Lon
    Joined
    03 Apr '03
    Moves
    140206
    29 Nov '09 22:46
    True 🙂
  14. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    30 Nov '09 04:45
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Wrong. Christianity does not come from Judaism.
    Christianity comes from the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul and others, who were sent to preach to the Gentiles.
    So is the Old Testament unimportant to you as it does not contain any teachings of Christ?
  15. At the Revolution
    Joined
    15 Sep '07
    Moves
    5073
    30 Nov '09 21:46
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Wrong. Christianity does not come from Judaism.
    Christianity comes from the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul and others, who were sent to preach to the Gentiles.
    First of all, Jesus and all of his initial group of disciples were Jewish.

    Second of all, the Bible contains as part of its scripture the Old Testament, which is a fundamental text to Judaism.

    Although Christianity has as its backbone the idea that Christ is the final prophet, God on Earth, or the Son of God (depending on which types of Christians you ask), it also has Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Abraham, Moses, Jonah, Job, etc.

    Both Christianity and Judaism (as well as Islam and Ba'haism) are Abrahamic faiths, meaning that they center around Abraham as the first prophet and then the rest fall into place. The Old Testament is followed by all four faiths. Then each group also has supplementary texts that make the religion what it is: the Talmud, the New Testament, the Qur'an, etc.
Back to Top