1. Joined
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    08 Jul '16 02:09
    ...or it's not.

    Right?
  2. Joined
    02 Jan '06
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    10087
    08 Jul '16 02:15
    Originally posted by josephw
    ...or it's not.

    Right?
    Everything that I agree with is truth, everything else is 20 shades of gray. 😛
  3. SubscriberBigDoggProblem
    The Advanced Mind
    bigdogghouse.com/RHP
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    08 Jul '16 03:44
    Originally posted by josephw
    ...or it's not.

    Right?
    Either tautologies are tautologies, or they are not. Right? 🙄
  4. Joined
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    08 Jul '16 06:05
    Originally posted by josephw
    ...or it's not.

    Right?
    Is it true that "In human history, only God has allowed His will and the will of man to exist co-terminously."? And is it true that "That's a mixture none have attempted, let alone established"?
  5. Cape Town
    Joined
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    08 Jul '16 06:49
    Originally posted by josephw
    ...or it's not.

    Right?
    Have you never heard of half-truths?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-truth
  6. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
    A Spirited Misfit
    in London
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    08 Jul '16 07:06
    Originally posted by josephw
    ...or it's not.

    Right?
    We entertain opposite 'truths'. It is a truth for you that God exists. It's a truth for me that he doesn't.

    Where do we go from there? You are convinced you have the truth, but I match your conviction. All we have is our own understanding of truth, based on information that has persuaded us either way.

    So yes, truth is truth, but there is no way to know for certain Joe which one of us has glimpsed it. (And I say 'glimpse' as I'm pretty certain neither of us possesses it).
  7. Cape Town
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    08 Jul '16 10:02
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    So yes, truth is truth, but there is no way to know for certain Joe which one of us has glimpsed it. (And I say 'glimpse' as I'm pretty certain neither of us possesses it).
    What would it even mean to 'posses' a truth? I guess you could name your cat 'truth', but even then, I suspect that cats posses us not the other way around.
    If you mean 'know the truth about something' then surely you contradicted yourself by first stating that you did think you know the truth about something.
    If you mean know the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then you are coming dangerously close to 42.
  8. Joined
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    08 Jul '16 11:47
    Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
    Either tautologies are tautologies, or they are not. Right? 🙄
    Tautologies

    logic a statement that is true by necessity or by virtue of its logical form.

    Either truth is truth or it's not. Perfectly logical. No?
  9. Joined
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    08 Jul '16 11:48
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Is it true that "In human history, only God has allowed His will and the will of man to exist co-terminously."? And is it true that "That's a mixture none have attempted, let alone established"?
    Well, either it's true or it's not, right? 😉
  10. Joined
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    08 Jul '16 11:51
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Have you never heard of half-truths?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-truth
    Well, either half-truths are half-truths or they're not. Right?

    But this thread isn't about half-truths. See how fast we get off topic around here? 😉
  11. Cape Town
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    08 Jul '16 11:51
    Originally posted by josephw
    Either truth is truth or it's not. Perfectly logical. No?
    No, not logical. Truth cannot sensibly be said to be 'not truth' whilst simultaneously not also being said to be 'truth'. So at a minimum truth is truth - which is a tautology. More accurately you could have said truth is truth or truth and not truth.
  12. Joined
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    08 Jul '16 11:54
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    We entertain opposite 'truths'. It is a truth for you that God exists. It's a truth for me that he doesn't.

    Where do we go from there? You are convinced you have the truth, but I match your conviction. All we have is our own understanding of truth, based on information that has persuaded us either way.

    So yes, truth is truth, but there is no wa ...[text shortened]... e of us has glimpsed it. (And I say 'glimpse' as I'm pretty certain neither of us possesses it).
    No, it's not "a truth" for me and "a truth for you.

    God exists or He doesn't. Truth is truth or it's not.
  13. Joined
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    08 Jul '16 11:55
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    What would it even mean to 'posses' a truth? I guess you could name your cat 'truth', but even then, I suspect that cats posses us not the other way around.
    If you mean 'know the truth about something' then surely you contradicted yourself by first stating that you did think you know the truth about something.
    If you mean know the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then you are coming dangerously close to 42.
    "What would it even mean to 'posses' a truth?"

    Or "know" the truth.
  14. Standard membervivify
    rain
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    08 Jul '16 12:221 edit
    Originally posted by josephw
    ...or it's not.

    Right?
    A truth can be a lie when used without context, or when only part of the truth is used (half truth).

    I remember once in Vegas, I had a conversation with this really lovely woman, who said she didn't like Obama (who was first running for president) because of his plan to raise taxes. I told her that the plan was only on families who make at least 250,000 a year, which was a small percentage of the population. She didn't know what to say, and left it at that. But like I said, she was quite lovely (she was giving me a hot stone massage), and she actually tracked me down because I had forgotten my wallet when I left, which had a lot of cash and my debit card.

    But that woman knew only a half-truth (probably circulated by some conservative outlet). So "truth" isn't always truth. For example, when I brought up Vegas, did you think I was implying either a hot date or night with a call girl? A bit of info left out: I was on my honeymoon, and my was also getting a message with me. Had I worded getting a message in a certain way, I could've made it seem like I was some playboy living it up.

    So "truth" can actually be a lie, if the proper context is left out.
  15. Standard membersonship
    the corrected one.
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    08 Jul '16 12:481 edit
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    Where do we go from there? You are convinced you have the truth, but I match your conviction.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have seen this boast before. i don't think I have seen it demonstrated.

    I don't think you can match the conviction of a Christian. The knowledge of God takes place in a realm deeper than the human mind. And it is something that cannot be taken away once touched.

    There is even nothing for the receiving to boast about because he realizes that it is not of him. Bragging is excluded because the born again Christian knows that he is not the source of the internal witness going on in him that God is.

    My opinion is that the unbeliever cannot match the strength of this conviction that God has been touched, tasted, and in communion with. The praise has to go to God and not the strength of the believer's will power.

    As an searcher and unbeliever in Christ, I awoke with one view of life in the morning. In the evening I had another view of life. I was like a restless churning of the sea. There was no rest.

    There is rest in receiving Christ as Lord.
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