Emptiness and dependent arising - Zen

Originally posted by vistesd
And if you meet Hiakajo, what then?

I would give him a flower.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
I love these threads, they make aware of how little I know.

G'day avalanche. Hope that cat of your's is well and purring.

The Tibetan/Japanese/Chinese/Zen stuff is some of the scraps I've gathered, like clothing discarded by others. You'll have your own helpful "stuff" that won't fit me, but fit you much better.

I think we should not confuse "fitting" with "knowing". Knowing stuff can lead us a merry chase that leads right back to our house still empty-handed, but fitted out with "stuff". Been there, done that. I still don't discard my fitted scraps, while they are perhaps useful. But heaven forbid, that being free is dependent on IQ or arcane esoteric knowledge.

Freedom is dependent on no-thing.

Cheers.

Originally posted by Taoman
G'day avalanche. Hope that cat of your's is well and purring.

The Tibetan/Japanese/Chinese/Zen stuff is some of the scraps I've gathered, like clothing discarded by others. You'll have your own helpful "stuff" that won't fit me, but fit you much better.

I think we should not confuse "fitting" with "knowing". Knowing stuff can lead us a merry chase that ...[text shortened]... IQ or arcane esoteric knowledge.

Freedom is dependent on no-thing.

Cheers.

It is written,

shape clay into a vessel, it is the space within that gives it value
place doors and widows in a house, it is the opening that brings light within,
set spokes within a wheel, it is the emptiness of the hub that makes them useful,
therefore, be the space at the centre, be nothing, and you will have everything to give
to others,

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
It is written,

shape clay into a vessel, it is the space within that gives it value
place doors and widows in a house, it is the opening that brings light within,
set spokes within a wheel, it is the emptiness of the hub that makes them useful,
therefore, be the space at the centre, be nothing, and you will have everything to give
to others,

Ah, the Tao Te Ching, much of help to be had there, robbie... Thank you, most apropos.

Going on from where we were before.....

Passage from "Old Man Basking in the Sun - Longchempa's Treasury of Natural Perfection" translated by Kieth Dowman. p.6

This is from the tradition of Dzogchen, a Tibetan subset of Buddhism. They all float around the same sun.
[The comments in square brackets are mine.]

>>>
"Whatever occurs in the mind, quiescent or proliferating
[quiet or frenetic] , as one of the "five poisons"
[desire, anger, ignorance, pride, jealousy]
or any other gnostic potency,
[any dynamic appearing within awareness]
in the very peculiarity of its arising
and in that very moment,
it recognises itself, [awareness, of its very nature, recognizes its own state]
fully potentiates, [takes everything of the moment in]
and vanishes without trace: [the moment and its awareness ends]
the crucial carefree detachment at the subject/object junction,

[this is the crux point, note well...The subject, the one taking in, finds awareness arising in the same moment as the object - mental or other thing taken in - appears. This is the junction of subject/object. Neither subject or object alone is the reason for the awareness arising. Everything depends on everything else, nothing exists of itself alone. Awareness is in the middle and your every experiencing is that awareness. The crux event is in the middle between them. We neither identify with the subject or the object, but with carefree detachment we abide in the awareness between them. In this way, we continue to live our lives, deciding, acting but do not get anchored down anywhere and remain free and fully experiencing the matrix of just being]

...the crucial self-sprung awareness as a bird's traceless trajectory,
the crucial all inclusive spaciousness as a unitary billowing ocean,
and even the crucial focus upon the sublime mystery itself,
are assimilated [taken in, happen by themselves] from the beginning in every experience, and mere recognition of this crux is the reality of release.
[i.e simply relax and be aware of the crux of awareness itself]"
>>>>

Hope this helps with your former questions.

Originally posted by Taoman
Ah, the Tao Te Ching, much of help to be had there, robbie... Thank you, most apropos.

Going on from where we were before.....

Passage from "Old Man Basking in the Sun - Longchempa's Treasury of Natural Perfection" translated by Kieth Dowman. p.6

This is from the tradition of Dzogchen, a Tibetan subset of Buddhism. They all float around the same sun e of the crux of awareness itself]"
>>>>

Hope this helps with your former questions.

I must confess Taoman, I am rather more surface than the appearance of depth that I
have given, for I had no idea that it was the Tao Te Ching, i gleaned it from my
favourite TV series, Kung Fu, the story of a shaolin monk, banished from China and
wandering the towns of pre-modern America. I love that series, but even so, perhaps
a little wisdom may percolate through the rock mass of this mind carrying nutrients
with it 🙂

Originally posted by Taoman
"...Emptiness is another central doctrine of the Mulamadhyamakakarika
[MMK, A central writing by Nagarjuna, sometimes referred to as the "Second Buddha". ].

Without emptiness (sunyata) there could be no two truths. Without emptiness, there could be no dependent arising (pratityasamutpada). What is important to realise about emptiness is that it does no ...[text shortened]... es not exist."

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays/Nagarjuna/zenteachingsofnagarjuna.pdf

I haven't studied dependant origination much, but isn't it the Buddha's explanation about how suffering arises from ignorance on a psychological level?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I must confess Taoman, I am rather more surface than the appearance of depth that I
have given, for I had no idea that it was the Tao Te Ching, i gleaned it from my
favourite TV series, Kung Fu, the story of a shaolin monk, banished from China and
wandering the towns of pre-modern America. I love that series, but even so, perhaps
a little wisdom may percolate through the rock mass of this mind carrying nutrients
with it 🙂

It already is. Interesting you like that series a lot.

Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard
I haven't studied dependant origination much, but isn't it the Buddha's explanation about how suffering arises from ignorance on a psychological level?

Yes. As I see it, it begins with the awareness of the impermanent, changing nature of existence and its interdependence at every level. By establishing this awareness, we realize the so called rigid concept of ego/self is an ignorance provoking much emotional reaction, defense and unnecessary misery-making. We are trying to defend and maintain something that actually is not finally an entity but more a dynamic living dependent process, itself changing constantly.

By releasing this embedded ego/self defense structure our personal dynamics flow more creatively and fulfillingly. Also, when we suffer the pain and loss that is inherent in existence, the rigid clinging and bemoaning of the self structure is loosened and every phenomenon becomes just what it is and not clung to as "ours". One still experiences pain and loss but it is not underlined anymore as OUR loss or pain but rather a process of life itself. By detachment we are able to see not only the pain/loss but its broader view, including its balance with the necessary defining co-relatives of joy and gain.
This hopefully leads to a much more stable psychological life, able to enjoy and create effectively with what passes and flows.
That's how it appears to me.
Thanks LOTC.

Originally posted by Taoman
G'day avalanche. Hope that cat of your's is well and purring.

The Tibetan/Japanese/Chinese/Zen stuff is some of the scraps I've gathered, like clothing discarded by others. You'll have your own helpful "stuff" that won't fit me, but fit you much better.

I think we should not confuse "fitting" with "knowing". Knowing stuff can lead us a merry chase that ...[text shortened]... IQ or arcane esoteric knowledge.

Freedom is dependent on no-thing.

Cheers.

Hey dude. Alas Avalanche has finally shuffled off this mortal coil, but his memory lives on - he was truly a cat among cats.

I do find much of value in the Zen stuff. I rarely feel I understand it although I don't let that get in the way - I certainly don't find the chopping wood and carrying water anywhere near so onerous these days!

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Hey dude. Alas Avalanche has finally shuffled off this mortal coil, but his memory lives on - he was truly a cat among cats.

I do find much of value in the Zen stuff. I rarely feel I understand it although I don't let that get in the way - I certainly don't find the chopping wood and carrying water anywhere near so onerous these days!

Sorry to hear of his parting. I did wonder, not knowing his age. May you hear him purring now and then. I like cats, they have their own zen. 🙂
Offering explanations, one hardly wants them taken too definitely.

Windy day,
cat sniffs at its twitching tail
and I sneeze.

Originally posted by Taoman
Ego is the least of it, so whether there is sometimes little response is like the wind. Sometimes the wind blows west, sometimes the wind blows east. Besides, every now and then the venerable BB joins in and I do so profit from those encounters. A bit selfish of me perhaps.

I do read, also, Taoman. 😉 ............

Long is the night to the sleepless; long is the league to the weary. Long is worldly existence to fools who know not the Sublime Truth.

Should a seeker not find a companion who is better or equal, let him resolutely pursue a solitary course; there is no fellowship with the fool.

The fool worries, thinking, "I have sons, I have wealth." Indeed, when he himself is not his own, whence are sons, whence is wealth?

A fool who knows his foolishness is wise at least to that extent, but a fool who thinks himself wise is a fool indeed.

Though all his life a fool associates with a wise man, he no more comprehends the Truth than a spoon tastes the flavor of the soup.

Though only for a moment a discerning person associates with a wise man, quickly he comprehends the Truth, just as the tongue tastes the flavor of the soup.

Fools of little wit are enemies unto themselves as they move about doing evil deeds, the fruits of which are bitter.

Ill done is that action of doing which one repents later, and the fruit of which one, weeping, reaps with tears.

Well done is that action of doing which one repents not later, and the fruit of which one reaps with delight and happiness.

So long as an evil deed has not ripened, the fool thinks it as sweet as honey. But when the evil deed ripens, the fool comes to grief.

Month after month a fool may eat his food with the tip of a blade of grass, but he still is not worth a sixteenth part of the those who have comprehended the Truth.

Truly, an evil deed committed does not immediately bear fruit, like milk that does not turn sour all at once. But smoldering, it follows the fool like fire covered by ashes.

To his own ruin the fool gains knowledge, for it cleaves his head and destroys his innate goodness.

The fool seeks undeserved reputation, precedence among monks, authority over monasteries, and honor among householders.

"Let both laymen and monks think that it was done by me. In every work, great and small, let them follow me" — such is the ambition of the fool; thus his desire and pride increase.

One is the quest for worldly gain, and quite another is the path to Nibbana. Clearly understanding this, let not the monk, the disciple of the Buddha, be carried away by worldly acclaim, but develop detachment instead.

-Pali Scriptures.

-m.

Originally posted by mikelom
I do read, also, Taoman. 😉 ............

Long is the night to the sleepless; long is the league to the weary. Long is worldly existence to fools who know not the Sublime Truth.

Should a seeker not find a companion who is better or equal, let him resolutely pursue a solitary course; there is no fellowship with the fool.

The fool worries, thinkin ...[text shortened]... carried away by worldly acclaim, but develop detachment instead.

-Pali Scriptures.

-m.

Thank you, mikelom.

Fools there are,
neither follow nor reject them.
Monks there are,
walk neither behind them nor in front.
Buddhas abound
but cling to none of them.
Evils deeds are because minds
have not stopped clinging,
clinging to what isn't.
***

Sunrise,
the orange robe
sweeps the dust away
in the morning meditation walk.

***

Namaste.

Focus too much on not clinging can also be a form of clinging. Best to relax and enjoy the letting go.

The Great Lion of the Dharma did not come
to leave but a list of dos and don'ts like all the rest,
as helpful and guiding as they might be.
No! He went beyond all for and against
that builds and rebuilds samsara and
left us the one light of the Tathagata,
by which we see all the forms of samsara
are emptiness itself, no other.