2. Saying that the Church discriminates against women because it does not permit female priests is criticism. Saying the Church burned five million women as witches is slander. See a difference?
Originally posted by lucifershammer 1. Not really. If you want to deal with the fact that you're dealing with an international community here, you need to stop making judgments on the basis of US laws (especially where they differ from other Western, if not most other, countries).
2. Pointing out that the Church does not permit female priests is criticism. Saying the Church burned five million women as witches is slander. See a difference?
1. Still. Not. My. Problem. It is what it is, you can deal with that, or you can't.
2. Who would you say is responsible for the persecution and murder of over 5 million women as "witches" under the auspices of Christian dogma?
Originally posted by lucifershammer Yes - except his descriptions of artwork, architecture, documents, secret rituals, history and virtually any other "background" information to the story are, in fact, not accurate.
Originally posted by lucifershammer Yes - except his descriptions of artwork, architecture, documents, secret rituals, history and virtually any other "background" information to the story are, in fact, not accurate.
Even if you think his 'facts' aren't true, it does not justify censorship of the book. The author is making a claim that certain things in the book are factual; readers need not agree. The church is free to make every attempt to discredit and refute the book's claims; if they are so obviously incorrect, it should be easy.
Originally posted by DoctorScribbles According to the most recent issue of Time magazine, some Catholics in India plan to protest the Da Vinci Code movie if their government does not ban the movie. Their protest will take the form of fasting, starving to death if necessary, until the movie is banned.
Please join me in offering lucifershammer encouragement and support in this endeavor.
Don't believe everything you read in the press, you gullible genius.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem Even if you think his 'facts' aren't true, it does not justify censorship of the book. The author is making a claim that certain things in the book are factual; readers need not agree. The church is free to make every attempt to discredit and refute the book's claims; if they are so obviously incorrect, it should be easy.
This isn't about whether readers agree or disagree - either what he claims is factual, or it is not. If he knows his claims are not factual, then he is trying to con the reader.
And, yes, it is very easy to refute his claims. It's just much easier to sell 40mn copies of "Big Bad Church" and "Let me tell you the Secret" than the truth.
EDIT: In some ways, Washington Irving's Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus is a good parallel - people still believe Columbus had difficulty obtaining support for his plan because it was believed that the Earth was flat.
Originally posted by Churlant 1. Not that I know of.
2. They burned/drowned themselves then?
-JC
1. You two have so much in common.
2. About 5 minutes of Googling should tell you the number of women (and men) who were actually (i.e. in the real world you and I live in) executed as witches.
Originally posted by lucifershammer 1. Not really. If you want to deal with the fact that you're dealing with an international community here, you need to stop making judgments on the basis of US laws (especially where they differ from other Western, if not most other, countries).
2. Saying that the Church discriminates against women because it does not permit female priests is criticism. Saying the Church burned five million women as witches is slander. See a difference?
US law is based on the Enlightment philosophies of personal freedom. That other countries have vestiges of imperial law is their problem. The idea that one can defame the RCC is ludicrous. The idea that a film be banned because some people might be offended by it is offensive to any idea of personal freedom. If you want to be the RCC version of Goebbels that's up to you, but stop your silly criticism of US law because it supports free expression.
With your twisted notion that the Church is an entity that only does good acts, and when its leaders do bad acts on its behalf, the Church is not responsible, my best guess is zero.
Originally posted by lucifershammer This isn't about whether readers agree or disagree - either what he claims is factual, or it is not. If he knows his claims are not factual, then he is trying to con the reader.
And, yes, it is very easy to refute his claims. It's just much easier to sell 40mn copies of "Big Bad Church" and "Let me tell you the Secret" than the truth.
EDIT: In s ...[text shortened]... ifficulty obtaining support for his plan because it was believed that the Earth was flat.
If he knows his claims are not factual, then he is trying to con the reader.
To steal your phrase, it isn't so binary. It's possible he truly believes his claims; It's also possible that the 'facts' are open to some interpretation.
And, yes, it is very easy to refute his claims. It's just much easier to sell 40mn copies of "Big Bad Church" and "Let me tell you the Secret" than the truth.
...than the truth, as you perceive it. Legally, everyone has, or ought to have, the right to examine the evidence, both pro and con, and come to their own conclusion. Censorship deprives them of that right.
Originally posted by lucifershammer 1. You two have so much in common.
2. About 5 minutes of Googling should tell you the number of women (and men) who were actually (i.e. in the real world you and I live in) executed as witches.
1. That's nice. Not sure how this is relevant to the topic at hand, but I'm always glad to hear I am not alone in my neuroses.
2. Actually, about 5 minutes of Googling tells me the number is between 200,000 and 9,000,000 - depending on the source, of course. You will understand that I disbelieve both extremes, however the exact number seems rooted in semantics.
So for the sake of argument we will imagine only 200,000 women have died of this religious persecution. My original question then applies - who is responsible?
18 May '06 17:26
Encouragement for Lucifershammer
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