1. Joined
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    03 Feb '08 04:30
    your religion is not a special one, it is one among millions upon billions. god is just not real. every minute you spend praying to your god is a minute you have wasted on an imaginary being.

    religion and mythology comes in two parts. neither part is based on fact. part one is one of ignorance, and dates back to early civilizations who looked up to the sky and around them and wondered things such as "what are those things up there?" "why am i here?". these people made up their own gods as explanations for these phenomena which are now known not to be true.

    part two is one of fear, and is going on today. you are afraid of the fact that god may indeed exist but in the back of your mind you know it doesn't. you sit there, wherever you do it and pray. then you wonder "why dont you ever talk to me?". you might even lose faith sometimes but it keeps pulling you in because of the fear, you don't want to go to hell. you need to make the change though, turn away, and live life. for yourself. not for god.
  2. Joined
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    03 Feb '08 04:59
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    your religion is not a special one, it is one among millions upon billions. god is just not real. every minute you spend praying to your god is a minute you have wasted on an imaginary being.

    religion and mythology comes in two parts. neither part is based on fact. part one is one of ignorance, and dates back to early civilizations who looked up to ...[text shortened]... you need to make the change though, turn away, and live life. for yourself. not for god.
    I do not believe prayer is a waste of time. When I was a theist, and I would pray at church, prayer was an opportunity to centre my thoughts and reflect deeply about how I am going in life. A prayer of contrition, in which I contemplated all my sins and faults, also cultivated a sense of virtue and made me a more ethical being.
  3. Joined
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    03 Feb '08 05:08
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    I do not believe prayer is a waste of time. When I was a theist, and I would pray at church, prayer was an opportunity to centre my thoughts and reflect deeply about how I am going in life. A prayer of contrition, in which I contemplated all my sins and faults, also cultivated a sense of virtue and made me a more ethical being.
    i agree, i should have worded that better. i currently still pray, but my advice to anyone is to pray if it makes you feel good but never, ever, under any circumstances believe or even hope that they will be answered.
  4. Joined
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    03 Feb '08 05:09
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    I do not believe prayer is a waste of time. When I was a theist, and I would pray at church, prayer was an opportunity to centre my thoughts and reflect deeply about how I am going in life. A prayer of contrition, in which I contemplated all my sins and faults, also cultivated a sense of virtue and made me a more ethical being.
    Wouldn't doing that without theism be simply self-reflection and not prayer?

    Contemplating your sins, faults and centering your thoughts is a worthwhile process that doesn't require prayer per se.
  5. Joined
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    03 Feb '08 05:381 edit
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Wouldn't doing that without theism be simply self-reflection and not prayer?

    Contemplating your sins, faults and centering your thoughts is a worthwhile process that doesn't require prayer per se.
    I agree. But ritual prayer gave structure to that self-reflection, and because it was a religious exercise, there was a greater sense of purpose (a divine one, I guess.)

    As an atheist, I now feel no reason to engage in that practice. I have no motivation to ponder my faults once every Sunday for an hour. And when a Catholic, there were regular retreats so that people might relax for a few days (and enjoy some of the best Australian scenery) and devote time to meditation. Atheism does not present those same advantages (although I am not complaining. I prefer atheism, obviously.)
  6. Joined
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    03 Feb '08 05:39
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    i agree, i should have worded that better. i currently still pray, but my advice to anyone is to pray if it makes you feel good but never, ever, under any circumstances believe or even hope that they will be answered.
    I think that most Christians acknowledge that it is futile to pray and expect benefits from God.
  7. Melbourne, Australia
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    03 Feb '08 05:58
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Wouldn't doing that without theism be simply self-reflection and not prayer?

    Contemplating your sins, faults and centering your thoughts is a worthwhile process that doesn't require prayer per se.
    You could probably call it meditation and have the same effect.Prayer is, in essence, just a form of meditation, don't you think?
  8. tinyurl.com/ywohm
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    03 Feb '08 06:32
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    your religion is not a special one, it is one among millions upon billions. god is just not real. every minute you spend praying to your god is a minute you have wasted on an imaginary being.

    religion and mythology comes in two parts. neither part is based on fact. part one is one of ignorance, and dates back to early civilizations who looked up to ...[text shortened]... you need to make the change though, turn away, and live life. for yourself. not for god.
    I look forward to hearing why we should take your opinions as facts.
  9. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    03 Feb '08 09:55
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    your religion is not a special one, it is one among millions upon billions. god is just not real. every minute you spend praying to your god is a minute you have wasted on an imaginary being.

    religion and mythology comes in two parts. neither part is based on fact. part one is one of ignorance, and dates back to early civilizations who looked up to ...[text shortened]... you need to make the change though, turn away, and live life. for yourself. not for god.
    Excellent post young fella.
  10. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    03 Feb '08 09:56
    Originally posted by pawnhandler
    I look forward to hearing why we should take your opinions as facts.
    I look forward to hearing why you take the words of some 2000 year dead teenager as fact too.
  11. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    03 Feb '08 09:57
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    I agree. But ritual prayer gave structure to that self-reflection, and because it was a religious exercise, there was a greater sense of purpose (a divine one, I guess.)

    As an atheist, I now feel no reason to engage in that practice. I have no motivation to ponder my faults once every Sunday for an hour. And when a Catholic, there were regular retreats s ...[text shortened]... not present those same advantages (although I am not complaining. I prefer atheism, obviously.)
    Are you associaged with any atheist organizations? I'm sure there are many which have events.
  12. tinyurl.com/ywohm
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    03 Feb '08 14:38
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    I look forward to hearing why you take the words of some 2000 year dead teenager as fact too.
    I didn't say we should take the Bible as literal fact. I didn't say that we should believe what Bible scholars have subsequently learned and discovered. I will say that the opinions of the original poster, while held by a number of people, are still opinions. I would be very interested if someone took Biblical scholarship and refuted it by their own educated research. I'm not talking about evolution/creation -- I don't know of any Biblical scholar who claims the earth was created in seven days of 24 hours each. But I am more prone to take seriously those who've done research into the original documents over someone who cares so little about what he's saying that he can't be bothered to use capital letters.
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    03 Feb '08 15:51
    Originally posted by pawnhandler
    I look forward to hearing why we should take your opinions as facts.
    my first point: god is not real. indeed he is not, i don't need to prove that.

    my second point: how religion started. once again, i don't have to prove that point.

    my third point: religion exists today because of fear. there are a number of things the catholic church did way back when to control others by fear, it is carrying over still today. i am having trouble remembering the name of the roman emperor, i believe it was justinian who before battle said he looked to the sky and saw a cross and knew that he had victory in this battle or something like that. it was established for power, not to spread the word of god. if you remember correctly, you know that at the beginning of the catholic church, the people could not translate the bible and were not allowed to know its contents. they also payed indulgences for their sins. do you remember the crusades? they may tell you it was to capture the holy land but in reality, the church just wanted them to leave because they were causing trouble and starting fights within their own community. by claiming that the catholic church was the only way to god, it empowered itself. it is just NOT a church based on religious beliefs, it's just not. then quakers and what not moved to "the new world" and spread the word. now we have this mess today.
  14. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    03 Feb '08 16:02
    Originally posted by pawnhandler
    I didn't say we should take the Bible as literal fact. I didn't say that we should believe what Bible scholars have subsequently learned and discovered. I will say that the opinions of the original poster, while held by a number of people, are still opinions. I would be very interested if someone took Biblical scholarship and refuted it by their own e ...[text shortened]... cares so little about what he's saying that he can't be bothered to use capital letters.
    But you have two documents, one somewhat longer than the other, both by unknown authors. One of the authors has been dead for 2000 years. Don't you see this as being somewhat equal?
  15. Joined
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    03 Feb '08 16:07
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    But you have two documents, one somewhat longer than the other, both by unknown authors. One of the authors has been dead for 2000 years. Don't you see this as being somewhat equal?
    i don't believe he is saying that the bible is true and i have given very vague points but i know somebody here can do a much better job of it than i can. i don't expect josephw to come in here and read an essay, and since people like him are my audience i try to do a very short job of it.
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