1. Joined
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    15 Mar '15 22:552 edits
    Ecclesiastes 4:1-12King James Version (KJV)4 So I returned, and considered all the oppressions that are done under the sun: and behold the tears of such as were oppressed, and they had no comforter; and on the side of their oppressors there was power; but they had no comforter.
    2 Wherefore I praised the dead which are already dead more than the living which are yet alive.
    3 Yea, better is he than both they, which hath not yet been, who hath not seen the evil work that is done under the sun.
    4 Again, I considered all travail, and every right work, that for this a man is envied of his neighbour. This is also vanity and vexation of spirit.
    5 The fool foldeth his hands together, and eateth his own flesh.
    6 Better is an handful with quietness, than both the hands full with travail and vexation of spirit.
    7 Then I returned, and I saw vanity under the sun.
    8 There is one alone, and there is not a second; yea, he hath neither child nor brother: yet is there no end of all his labour; neither is his eye satisfied with riches; neither saith he, For whom do I labour, and bereave my soul of good? This is also vanity, yea, it is a sore travail.


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    I think this pretty much sums up the sinful condition of man.

    There are those who have power over his fellow man and uses such power to oppress others in a myriad of ways, and then there is the one who is being oppressed who envies the men who oppress him.

    Through Christ men learn to be satisfied with what they have and trust in God for what they need. Through Christ men can conquer the spirit of greed and use his position of power and influence to help those less fortunate.

    Of all the deadly sins though, envy is perhaps one of, if not the worst of the worst. After all, it is really the only sin where no pleasure is generated whatsoever. It simply eats you up inside until you want to explode. Basically envy is the pain of watching others succeed in life. Only through Christ can one realize that worldly power and wealth are not the objectives, and are not what will in the end satisfy, as King Solomon tells us in verse 8.

    To be a Christian means to be glad when others are prosperous, and not coveting. To be a Christian means to help those in need, and not turn a blind eye.

    Really, Christianity is the only answer to class warfare. It is not the opiate, it is the antidote.
  2. SubscriberProper Knob
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    15 Mar '15 23:12
    Originally posted by whodey
    Ecclesiastes 4:1-12King James Version (KJV)4 So I returned, and considered all the oppressions that are done under the sun: and behold the tears of such as were oppressed, and they had no comforter; and on the side of their oppressors there was power; but they had no comforter.
    2 Wherefore I praised the dead which are already dead more than the living which ...[text shortened]... lly, Christianity is the only answer to class warfare. It is not the opiate, it is the antidote.
    I don't mean to rain on your parade by knocking down your 'cardboard cut out stereotypes' whodey, but I worked out a long time ago that 'worldly power and wealth were not the objectives', I did this without having to 'go through' the ancient Jewish Zombie mythological figure you call Christ. You really need to broaden your horizons a little.
  3. Standard memberDeepThought
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    15 Mar '15 23:28
    Originally posted by whodey
    Ecclesiastes 4:1-12King James Version (KJV)4 So I returned, and considered all the oppressions that are done under the sun: and behold the tears of such as were oppressed, and they had no comforter; and on the side of their oppressors there was power; but they had no comforter.
    2 Wherefore I praised the dead which are already dead more than the living which ...[text shortened]... lly, Christianity is the only answer to class warfare. It is not the opiate, it is the antidote.
    Just a thought, but Ecclesiastes is from the Old Testament. It dates from around 200 BC. The writer of Ecclesiastes cannot possibly have thought that "only through Christ can one realize...". That didn't happen for another 200 or so years. In fact as I remember it ends by calling for moderation in all things. So I think you've missed the point of what Ecclesiastes had to say, probably because you are trying to hide a political point in a religious one.
  4. Standard membersonship
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    16 Mar '15 00:45
    A most important Christian virtue is that of forbearance. It could be described as being satisfied with less than your due.

    The book in the New Testament that I think speaks the most about this virtue is the Epistle of Philippians. It is here towards the conclusion of the book he writes -

    "Let your forbearance be known to all men. The Lord is near." ( Phil 4:5)

    Paul is writing from prison. His circumstances are very hard. Rival preachers are traveling around through churches which he established and tearing down what he labored to build up. He is limited. He is unable to work. His enemies may have been bragging that his imprisonment is probably a sign that God is not pleased with him.

    He writes "Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say rejoice." (v.4)

    This is not to rejoice because of your troubles. Rather it is to "rejoice in the Lord" . You rejoice because whatever your circumstances, the best thing is that you are in the realm of the Lord.

    Here's the two passages together -

    "Rejoice in the Lord; again I say rejoice. Let your forbearance be known to all men. The Lord is near."

    Men can rejoice in the Lord and make their forbearance manifest Christ. Christ is in the believers. To say He is near means much more than He is near in His second coming. He is near in that way. But He is near in that the Christian is actually joined and united with Christ. So she can "rejoice IN the Lord" .

    Christ surpasses in value all that we may legitimately count as our due.
    We can rejoice in the Lord with less than our worldly due, with less than what we may legitimately hold life owes us.
  5. Standard membersonship
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    16 Mar '15 00:532 edits
    'Let your forbearance be known to all men. The Lord is near."

    I.e., reasonableness, considerateness, and consideration in dealing with others, not being strict in claiming one's legal rights. It is in constrast to selfish ambition and vainglory (2:3) and to murmurings and reasonings (2:14). It is Christ Himself as an excellent virtue lived out of the believers."

    [footnote 5(2), Recovery Version, Phil. 5:5 Living Stream Ministry) ]

    Paul sets his will to rejoice in his unfortunate circumstances of being in prison. "Rejoice in the Lord always; again I say rejoice."

    Because the natural being fights with all its might against praise and rejoicing in trouble, Paul has to say "again I say rejoice."

    What power praise in Christ is.
    So he says rejoice in the Lord not sometimes but always.
    Whether the Christian is up or down - rejoice in the Lord.

    We do not rejoice in our troubles. We rejoice in the Lord.
    Rejoice in the value, the preciousness, the unrivaled worth of the Lord Jesus.
  6. Joined
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    16 Mar '15 01:50
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    I don't mean to rain on your parade by knocking down your 'cardboard cut out stereotypes' whodey, but I worked out a long time ago that 'worldly power and wealth were not the objectives', I did this without having to 'go through' the ancient Jewish Zombie mythological figure you call Christ. You really need to broaden your horizons a little.
    Don't tell me you don't whine about the top 1%.....ever.
  7. Joined
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    16 Mar '15 01:51
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    Just a thought, but Ecclesiastes is from the Old Testament. It dates from around 200 BC. The writer of Ecclesiastes cannot possibly have thought that "only through Christ can one realize...". That didn't happen for another 200 or so years. In fact as I remember it ends by calling for moderation in all things. So I think you've missed the point of wh ...[text shortened]... iastes had to say, probably because you are trying to hide a political point in a religious one.
    Well the conclusion of Solomon was that all was vanity.

    Essentially his attitude is, "Screw it all".

    Now with Christ coming later on, the Christian can conclude that there is actually something worth pursuing that is eternal and actually brings peace.
  8. SubscriberProper Knob
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    16 Mar '15 08:02
    Originally posted by whodey
    Don't tell me you don't whine about the top 1%.....ever.
    What are you talking about?
  9. Joined
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    16 Mar '15 08:491 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Ecclesiastes 4:1-12King James Version (KJV)4 So I returned, and considered all the oppressions that are done under the sun: and behold the tears of such as were oppressed, and they had no comforter; and on the side of their oppressors there was power; but they had no comforter.
    2 Wherefore I praised the dead which are already dead more than the living which ...[text shortened]... lly, Christianity is the only answer to class warfare. It is not the opiate, it is the antidote.
    If you would open your eyes and ears for a change you would notice that a lot of people who “complain” about unfair wealth distribution in the world, don’t complain because they feel THEY should get a bigger slice of the pie, but rather the whole of society - and especially the less fortunate - deserves more.

    In fact, of all the people that post on these message boards, you, with a wide margin, come across as the most envious complainer of them all.

    You should have a surgeon check out that log that is stuck in your eye.

    Personally, I am perfectly happy leading a very average life with a very average income, but I do think distribution of wealth should be a concern.
  10. Joined
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    16 Mar '15 10:451 edit
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    If you would open your eyes and ears for a change you would notice that a lot of people who “complain” about unfair wealth distribution in the world, don’t complain because they feel [b]THEY should get a bigger slice of the pie, but rather the whole of society - and especially the less fortunate - deserves more.

    In fact, of all the people that ...[text shortened]... rage life with a very average income, but I do think distribution of wealth should be a concern.[/b]
    Here in the states I see people complain about jobs going over seas.

    Why? Are these jobs not going to people who have less money? Those that are "poor" in the US are rich in places like Haiti.

    No, people are just looking out for themselves. We all fall into that trap, myself included.

    Politically speaking, in the US coveting is a virtue. Just know that anytime you hear the term "top 1%", they are feeding into it.

    What I find sad are those who don't help the less fortunate. Instead, fueled by guilt they vote for people who say they will try to help the less fortunate for them. Not only does the middle man in government eat the majority of the taxes collected to help the less fortunate, they often mismanage those funds.
  11. Joined
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    16 Mar '15 11:47
    Complaining about jobs going over seas has by and large nothing to do with envy.

    It is an understandable worry when jobs get outsourced to cheap labor over seas with abysmal working conditions while it leaves an unemployment gap back home.
  12. Joined
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    16 Mar '15 11:50
    Originally posted by whodey
    No, people are just looking out for themselves. We all fall into that trap, myself included.
    Yes, you do.

    This is also why you make a big deal when it comes to abortions. You don't give a damn about a child once it's born. The reason why you're against abortions is because you feel your religion tells you to be against it and you want to follow your religion, because you believe it will get you into make-believe paradise.

    Again, pure selfishness.
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    16 Mar '15 12:55
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    It is an understandable worry when jobs get outsourced to cheap labor over seas with abysmal working conditions ......
    What do the abysmal working conditions have to do with it? People are worried about loosing their own jobs, they are not worried about jobs going to people with abysmal working conditions (unless they simply don't have a clue).
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    16 Mar '15 13:122 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    What do the abysmal working conditions have to do with it? People are worried about loosing their own jobs, they are not worried about jobs going to people with abysmal working conditions (unless they simply don't have a clue).
    Well I don’t know about you but I worry when companies like Apple or cloths manufacturers take advantage of cheap labor, 16 hour working days and next to no safety precautions.

    Yes, when faced with the possibility of losing your job, your first worry will be about yourself, but knowing your work will now be performed by someone who gets treated very badly in the process certainly aggravates the feeling of injustice.

    (unless they simply don't have a clue).

    I don't know what you mean by this.
  15. Cape Town
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    16 Mar '15 13:41
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    I don't know what you mean by this.
    If you have a choice between Apple treating their employees well, or Apple treating those same employees badly, then rather let them treat their employees well.
    But if the choice is give the job to a poor person in a third world country and treat them badly, or give the job to a rich American and leave the poor person without a job, then the choice should be to give the poor person the job, however badly they may get mistreated.
    There is a popular misconception that by taking a job away from a mistreated employee, you are somehow helping them. Not so.
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