04 Jun 16
"[T]he difficulty is not so much to escape death; the real difficulty is to escape from doing wrong, which is far more fleet of foot."
So said Socrates after he had been condemned to death.
Why is it that many of the Christians in this community talk so much about ideology, about "salvation", about the "afterlife", about "damnation", about "the Trinity", about technical, theoretical details, about texts analyzed as if it's an exercise in forensics, about competing imaginings of things never witnessed by human beings...
...and talk much less about the practical impact of their Christian beliefs on how they live their lives, how they navigate right and wrong, how their beliefs affect their interactions with others and their families and their relationships with people who have different beliefs, and their political stances, and a myriad of other everyday human issues and dilemmas?.
Isn't it odd that, broadly speaking, believers here - for all their religious beliefs and claims about 'moral authority' - seem no more or less moral than the non-believers, whilst giving no reason to believe that their beliefs have any practical influence on whether they live their lives as good people doing things right or as bad people doing things wrong?
There's a lot of talk here from believers that is, for all attempts and purposes, about "escaping" death and the hypotheses and ideology attendant thereto, but not so much talk about "escaping" wrong here on earth in this lifetime.
04 Jun 16
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Originally posted by FMFI think your premise is wrong. As is your characterization of Christians and your sneering language.
[b]"[T]he difficulty is not so much to escape death; the real difficulty is to escape from doing wrong, which is far more fleet of foot."
So said Socrates after he had been condemned to death.
Why is it that many of the Christians in this community talk so much about ideology, about "salvation", about the "afterlife", about "damnation", about "the Trin ...[text shortened]... y attendant thereto, but not so much talk about "escaping" wrong here on earth in this lifetime.[/b]
According to your flawed premise, what do you think is the ratio of these two "sides" of Christian thought, as gleaned in this forum? And how are you measuring this?
I'm also guessing that if you only measure these things by what you see in this forum, then you're going to be missing a great majority of the sum total effect of Christianity (the nitty-gritty, day-to-day effect) on the lives of Christians. And therefore, your measurement means nothing. The only purpose of it is to ineffectually "rail-and-flail" at their beliefs, like you usually do. Please, go find another hobby.
"...and talk much less about the practical impact of their Christian beliefs on how they live their lives, how they navigate right and wrong, how their beliefs affect their interactions with others and their families and their relationships with people who have different beliefs, and their political stances, and a myriad of other everyday human issues and dilemmas?"
As an "ex-Christian" (whatever that is), I'm sure you are familiar with the Sermon on the Mount. The relevant portion of it here is this: "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." -- Matthew 7:6, KJV
I'm not about to talk about these things dear to me only to have predators like you "trample them under their feet", nor am I going to allow you to "turn again and rend" me because of them. I've been here a long time, and so have you. I can't believe you have to seriously ask the question of why we don't expose our softest bits to the wolves and allow ourselves to be mocked and chewed up and spit out over them.
04 Jun 16
Originally posted by SuzianneI have lived among Christians all my life, so understandably my question is not about them or addressed to them.
I'm also guessing that if you only measure these things by what you see in this forum, then you're going to be missing a great majority of the sum total effect of Christianity (the nitty-gritty, day-to-day effect) on the lives of Christians. And therefore, your measurement means nothing.
My question is about the Christians on this forum and is not based on any "measurement" but instead on my impressions built up over the many years I have been here.
Why is it that the "great majority of the sum total effect of Christianity (the nitty-gritty, day-to-day effect) on the lives of Christians" ~ as you put it ~ seems completely invisible in so much of what is posted by Christians, by which I mean in its tone, its content and its preoccupations?
04 Jun 16
Originally posted by SuzianneOK, I guess this part of your post constitutes an answer to my question. Thanks..
I'm not about to talk about these things dear to me only to have predators like you "trample them under their feet", nor am I going to allow you to "turn again and rend" me because of them. I've been here a long time, and so have you. I can't believe you have to seriously ask the question of why we don't expose our softest bits to the wolves and allow ourselves to be mocked and chewed up and spit out over them.
04 Jun 16
Originally posted by SuzianneIt's true. We should be careful who we engage with but Jesus was illustrating that a
I think your premise is wrong. As is your characterization of Christians and your sneering language.
According to your flawed premise, what do you think is the ratio of these two "sides" of Christian thought, as gleaned in this forum? And how are you measuring this?
I'm also guessing that if you only measure these things by what you see in this foru ...[text shortened]... oftest bits to the wolves and allow ourselves to be mocked and chewed up and spit out over them.
swine cannot appreciate spiritual thoughts and teachings.
He was not discouraging the spreading of the Good News of God's Kingdom.
Jesus himself appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus to convert him and use him in
preaching the Good News.
04 Jun 16
Originally posted by sonshipHardly so. Many Christians here talk a lot about ideology and much less about its practical application to life. My perception: A Lot v Much Less, that's as far as the "measurement" goes and not intended to be empirical.
No measuring of Christians FMF ?
An observer from Mars, based on what he or she gathered from threads and conversations here, would be forgiven for thinking 'living the Christian life' is all about terminology and theories and technical stances about texts, and not about living life.
With Christians I know in 'real life' it seems rather different. It's a personal observation that's all.
Does it reflect the particular Christians who frequent this place or does it reflect the nature of the internet and the nature of debate through this medium?
04 Jun 16
Originally posted by roigamAt whom is what you type (and copy paste) about "spiritual thoughts and teachings" aimed then? This is a debate and discussion forum. How do you define "swine""? People are going to debate and discuss what you claim. People are not always going to believe you and some are not going to accept your theories and assertions. Are they "swine"? Do you see posting here as a practical part of you living your Christian life?
It's true. We should be careful who we engage with but Jesus was illustrating that a swine cannot appreciate spiritual thoughts and teachings.
05 Jun 16
Originally posted by roigamNo, swine cannot appreciate pearls. Jesus wasn't calling people 'swine'.
It's true. We should be careful who we engage with but Jesus was illustrating that a
swine cannot appreciate spiritual thoughts and teachings.
He was not discouraging the spreading of the Good News of God's Kingdom.
Jesus himself appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus to convert him and use him in
preaching the Good News.