Originally posted by no1marauder
This claim has been dealt with over and over on this Forum. Defining some entity as having no beginning is mere hocus pocus; there is no reason to take such a claim seriously. The Theist attempt to say "everything must have a beginning EXCEPT God" is a mere capricious and arbitrary construct. It is the height of irrationality to continue to argue such a self-contradictory assertion.
Can I once again clarify. The argument is not 'everything must have a beginning EXCEPT God' ....it is more subtle than this. It is more 'there must be something that has no beginning because otherwise something must begin from nothing which is even more irrational'.
or....'everything that has a beginning has to have a cause but if something has no beginning then it obviously has no cause because a cause is not needed'
or...'things do not begin from nothing so what is the thing that begins all life?and what begins that? and this thing what begins that? and this thing what begins that then? and this thing what begins that then? and this thing what begins that? and this thing what begins that? and this thing what begins that? (1000,000 years x infinity later)...and this thing what begins that? etc etc etc X more infinity...and then buck stops with either (a) and this thing begins out of completely nothing and nowhere ,no cause OR (b) and this thing has no beginning and is eternal.
Are you saying that (b) is more self contradictory and more irrational than (a)? You may label (b) as hocus pocus but logically either (a) or (b) must be true. In which case you are left with (a) which sounds much more like hocus pocus to me. All life 'appearing' out of nothing?!...like some magical puff of smoke? Abracadabra..drum roll....life! Out of zilch! Hocus pocus!!
Imagine ...Life is nothing , no time , no matter , no nothing...infact it's so nothing that even to call it nothing would be to give it too much substance. A void so devoid of anything (even that which we can't imagine) that it is not even an it. I would contest that such a nothingness would continue 'being' nothing for all time (if the phrases 'being' and 'all time' have any relevance here) since there would be nothing happening at all and nothing from which any else could happen. Contemplate it in all it's glorious nothingness! Nothing!!! Nothing at all!!!! Try and imagine it until your brain hurts !! And then some magic wand or something and ....boom! something out of nothing! how? Madness.. is this not?Oh dear ..what's happening.... suddenly eternity is starts to look more logical....oops ..but this cannot be.....eternity?...too awsome...too incredible......quick let's make it smaller...nothing..that's better...close down that line of thinking before it gets too religious and mystical...it doesn't matter if it's absurd as long as it's not mystical...phew!...that was close...