1. Felicific Forest
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    10 Mar '08 18:34
    "The phrase 'etsi Deus non daretur' [as if there were no God] is becoming a way of life which has its roots in a kind of 'arrogance' of reason", he said. Reason "was actually created and loved by God" but is now "held to be sufficient unto itself and closes itself off from contemplating and seeking a Truth that lies beyond it".

    Benedict XVI
  2. Joined
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    10 Mar '08 19:09
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    "The phrase 'etsi Deus non daretur' [as if there were no God] is becoming a way of life which has its roots in a kind of 'arrogance' of reason", he said. Reason "was actually created and loved by God" but is now "held to be sufficient unto itself and closes itself off from contemplating and seeking a Truth that lies beyond it".

    Benedict XVI
    People are getting more educated, so they start to make use of reason and start to deny the easy path of answers through gods.

    People who use reason don't need God.

    As God creating reason -> that's a belief

    People must realize each one of us is God on our own. We are alone, and we must support each other in order to thrive. Sitting around and praying is a waste of time.

    Vive la raison!
  3. Felicific Forest
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    10 Mar '08 20:13
    Originally posted by serigado
    People are getting more educated, so they start to make use of reason and start to deny the easy path of answers through gods.

    People who use reason don't need God.

    As God creating reason -> that's a belief

    People must realize each one of us is God on our own. We are alone, and we must support each other in order to thrive. Sitting around and praying is a waste of time.

    Vive la raison!
    "Human beings, though part of this cosmos, transcend it", he (... Benedictus XVI) said. "Of course man always remains man in all his dignity, even if in a coma or in the embryonic state, yet if he lives only biologically he does not realise and develop all the potential of his being. Man is called to open himself to new dimensions".

    The first dimension, said the Pope, is that of knowledge. In this context he noted how, unlike the animals, "man wishes to know everything, all of reality. ... He thirsts for knowledge of the infinite, he wishes to arrive at the font of life and to drink therefrom, to find life itself".

    This, he continued, leads to the second dimension: "Man is not just a being who knows, he also lives in relationships of friendship and of love. Beyond the dimension of knowledge of truth and of being, there also exists, inseparable from it, the dimension of relationships, of love. And it is here that man comes close to the source of life from which he wishes to drink in order to have life in abundance, to have life itself".

    Science, and medicine in particular, he went on, "are a great struggle for life", yet even if medicine were to find "the prescription against death, the prescription of immortality" it would still "be confined within this biosphere.

    "It is easy to imagine what would happen if man's biological life were endless, if he were immortal", the Holy Father added. "We would find ourselves in an aged world, a world full of old people, a world that would leave no space for the young, for the renewal of life. Thus we understand that this cannot be the kind of immortality to which we aspire. ... Drinking from the font of life is to enter into communion with this infinite love which is the source of life".
  4. Joined
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    10 Mar '08 22:52
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    "Human beings, though part of this cosmos, transcend it", he (... Benedictus XVI) said. "Of course man always remains man in all his dignity, even if in a coma or in the embryonic state, yet if he lives only biologically he does not realise and develop all the potential of his being. Man is called to open himself to new dimensions".

    The first dimension, ...[text shortened]... to enter into communion with this infinite love which is the source of life".
    "Human beings, though part of this cosmos, transcend it",
    Always the desire to be something more then we really are. That aspiration really must fulfill one's mind (or blind it?). We are mortal , we are biological, we don't have a soul (besides a metaphorical one).
    There are no "two dimensions" of anything. And Popes are demagogic in every way. Why do people idolize those charlatans? I can understand the belief in a God - but in the Pope??? please...
  5. Standard memberDavid C
    Flamenco Sketches
    Spain, in spirit
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    11 Mar '08 02:00
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    Reason "was actually created and loved by God" but is now "held to be sufficient unto itself and closes itself off from contemplating and seeking a Truth that lies beyond it".

    Benedict XVI
    "I am a man of one book" - Aquinas

    "Reason is the Devil's Harlot, who can do naught but slander and harm whatever God says and does" - Martin Luther

    "We sacrifice the intellect to God" - Loyola
  6. Cape Town
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    11 Mar '08 09:14
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    "The phrase 'etsi Deus non daretur' [as if there were no God] is becoming a way of life which has its roots in a kind of 'arrogance' of reason", he said. Reason "was actually created and loved by God" but is now "held to be sufficient unto itself and closes itself off from contemplating and seeking a Truth that lies beyond it".

    Benedict XVI
    Normally the phrase 'beyond reason' translated into 'madness'.

    The implication of your post is that there is another way to seek truth that does not rely on reason. So what is that other way, and why would your argue that it is a valid method? I often hear theists make that claim, (that there is another way to seek truth), yet it often remains a vague reference, and is used as a 'get out of jail free' card when faced with the fact that their claims are illogical or incoherent.
  7. Joined
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    11 Mar '08 10:41
    Originally posted by David C
    "I am a man of one book" - Aquinas

    "Reason is the Devil's Harlot, who can do naught but slander and harm whatever God says and does" - Martin Luther

    "We sacrifice the intellect to God" - Loyola
    As I understand, Aquinas actually said, Beware the man of one book. I doubt he ever said, I am a man of one book. He read and taught several books, clearly at odds with your quote. It was the Methodist-founder, John Wesley, who wrote, I am a man of one book.

    And I doubt the soundbite quote of Loyola really captures the full meaning. Loyola established a great religious order dedicated to intellectual pursuits. I doubt he ever wrote that the intellect must be sacrificed - although he could have said that the intellect should be made subservient to God.
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