Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. SubscriberFMF
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    When believers claim to have the "indwelling Holy Spirit" in them, what should non-believers be able to witness in the words and deeds of such people ~ here in this online environment ~ that might confirm or illustrate that their claims are true?
  2. Standard memberRajk999
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    @fmf said
    When believers claim to have the "indwelling Holy Spirit" in them, what should non-believers be able to witness in the words and deeds of such people ~ here in this online environment ~ that might confirm or illustrate that their claims are true?
    Boasting that one has the Holy Spirit is not condoned in the Bible.
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    @Rajk999

    Boasting that one has the Holy Spirit is not condoned in the Bible.


    Hi Rajk999,

    Stating that one HAS the Holy Spirit is doing what Paul did in a matter of fact way - I think I have the Spirit of God.

    "But she is more blessed if she so remains according to my opinion; but I think I have the Spirit of God." (1 Cor. 7:40)


    Paul is asked about difficult questions concerning marriage by the Corinthians. He does not always know exactly what God wants, but he gives his opinion. And with it he states plainly that he has the Spirit of God - the Holy Spirit.
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    05 Mar '19 12:523 edits
    Boasting that one has the Holy Spirit is not condoned in the Bible.

    Hello again Rajk999,

    I am not sure about this at all. First Corinthians 7:40 may not be bragging. But it is Paul stating in a matter of a fact way that he thinks he has the Spirit of God. So his opinion to the Corinthians is of spiritual and practical value.

    Now for actual boasting, how about Romans 5:2. Surely this is confidence in the HOPE of having the Holy Spirit.

    Therefore having been justified out of faith, we have peace toward God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

    Through whom also we have obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand and BOAST because of the hope of the glory of God. (Rom. 5:1,2)

    The Holy Spirit is the indwelling one as the hope of glory.
    "Christ in you, the hope of glory." (Col. 1:27)


    So boasting in the hope of the glory is really boasting in having the Holy Spirit.

    The Holy Spirit is not only Christ indwelling the Christian but the Spirit of glory and of God

    If you are reproached in the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. (1 Peter 4:14)

    Some of us have received a lot of reproach here because of the name of Jesus Christ. We can boast in hope of the Spirit of God being in us and the Spirit of glory resting upon us.

    We can have confidence that we have the Holy Spirit and can proclaim so.
  5. SubscriberFMF
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    @sonship said
    We can have confidence that we have the Holy Spirit and can proclaim so.
    What evidence is there from your demeanour and behaviour here that your proclamation is true?
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    Boasting that one has the Holy Spirit is not condoned in the Bible.


    This doesn't seem right Rajk999. It could be some kind of misguided false humility.

    Paul says we can boast in the hope of the glory of God because the love of God has been poured out into our hearts by the Holy Spirit .

    This connects the Christians boasting in tribulation to confidence that the Holy Spirit is in her. Look at the verses all together.

    ... we have obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand and BOAST because of the hope of the glory of God.

    And not only so, but we also BOAST in our tribulation, knowing that tribulation produces endurance; And endurance, approvedness, and approvedness, hope;

    And does not put us to shame because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. (Rom. 5:2b-5)


    It is true that we are not boasting in ourselves here as Christian. We are boasting in the Lord. For "the Lord is the Spirit" (2 Cor. 3:17)

    So Paul says the boasting one should boast in the Lord.

    But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became wisdom to us from God: both righteousness and sanctification and redemption,

    That as it is written, "He who boasts, let him boast in the Lord. " ( First Cor. 1:30,31)


    This is a boasting in confidence that one has the Lord Jesus. And the Lord Jesus became a life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45b) - the Holy Spirit, that He could dispense divine life into all of our being.
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    05 Mar '19 13:154 edits
    Boasting that one has the Holy Spirit is not condoned in the Bible.

    Rajk999,

    The Apostle Paul confidently boasted on behalf of himself and his co-workers that they had within their earthen vessels a divine treasure.

    But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not out of us. (2 Cor. 4:7)

    He is boasting not in Paul. He is boasting in the living Jesus as the treasure in himself. He is an " earthen vessel ". But within him is a treasure - the life of Christ that God has dispensed into Christians - all of them.

    This is kind of confident boasting in the indwelling Holy Spirit.

    "The power is of God and not out of us" Paul says. So it is not him boasting in himself but in Christ in him.
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    05 Mar '19 13:273 edits
    Boasting that one has the Holy Spirit is not condoned in the Bible.

    Rajk999,

    We should consider Paul's boasting to be boasting not in Paul but in the Spirit of Jesus Christ IN Paul. And he points out that we who believe Jesus Christ may share in this confidence.

    Here:

    "Since you seek a proof of the Christ who is speaking in me, who is not weak unto you but is powerful in you. " (2 Cor. 13:3)

    The dissenting Corinthian church was challenging Paul, seeking proof that Christ was really speaking in him. Paul responds with confidence. But he adds that this indwelling Christ is ALSO powerful in them just as well, IF they would learn to live by Him.

    Since you seek a proof of the Christ who is speaking in me, who is not weak unto you but IS POWERFUL IN YOU,

    For indeed He was crucified out of weakness, but He lives by the power of God.

    For indeed we are weak in Him, but we will live together with HIm by the power of God directed toward you.

    Test yourselves whether you are in the faith; prove yourselves, Or do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you ... (2 Cor. 13:3-5a)

    All speaking in the New Testament that Jesus Christ lives in us is speaking of the Holy Spirit living in us.

    The Christians in themselves are weak. But they can live by the power of God by identification with the indwelling Christ. Here in Second Corinthians 13 Paul is boasting on behalf of not only himself but his Christian audience.

    Christ lives by the power of God. Christ is speaking in him. Christ is powerful in them. Christ is powerful toward them. They should REALIZE that this powerful Jesus Christ is in them.
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    05 Mar '19 13:35
    @fmf said
    When believers claim to have the "indwelling Holy Spirit" in them, what should non-believers be able to witness in the words and deeds of such people ~ here in this online environment ~ that might confirm or illustrate that their claims are true?
    Matthew 7
    16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.
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    Context, Christs warning about false prophets.

    Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

    By their fruits you will recognize them ... "(See Matt. 7:15,16a)

    Outwardly, these people look like ones speaking for God (prophesying). The clothing is like one of the Lord's disciples, one of His sheep. But on the inside they are ravenous wolves.

    Sheep outwardly, appearing to follow the Good Shepherd.
    But inwardly vicious opposers seeking to destroy the way of Christ.

    Hence the expression " wolves in sheeps' clothing."

    Beware, the Lord Jesus says. Their fruits will manifest where they REALLY are - vicious, devouring, predatory, carnivores, seeking rather to EAT the sheep.

    Their hatred is toward the Shepherd. The only way they can fight against Him is to secretly devour the sheep as wolves pretending to be one of them.

    Beware.
  11. Standard memberRajk999
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    05 Mar '19 14:52
    @sonship said
    Context, Christs warning about false prophets.

    Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

    By their fruits you will recognize them ... "(See Matt. 7:15,16a)

    Outwardly, these people look like ones speaking for God (prophesying). The clothing is like one of the Lord's disciples, one o ...[text shortened]... fight against him is to secretly devour the sheep as wolves pretending to be one of them.

    Beware.
    Boasting about the possession of the Holy Spirit is the most common evil now running rampant in the Christian churches today. Jesus warned people to be careful about these types who profess to come in His name

    And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
    (Luke 21:8 KJV)


    You are a good example of such a person because you make this profession of having the Spirit of God, and then you twist the word to God which says clearly that unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

    Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJV)

    You promote a false doctrine that preaches faith alone is sufficient for entry into the Kingdom of God, and that righteous living, the avoidance of sin and doing good works, are not necessary. You are one of the people that Jesus warns His followers to be wary of.
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    @Rajk999

    Boasting about the possession of the Holy Spirit is the most common evil now running rampant in the Christian churches today.


    That does not prove that the Scriptures do not condone boasting of having the Holy Spirit.


    Jesus warned people to be careful about these types who profess to come in His name


    That still does not prove that Scriptures do not condone that Christians confidently proclaim they have the Holy Spirit.

    Try again.


    And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

    (Luke 21:8 KJV)


    STILL, no Bible "Thou Shalt Not Say You Have the Holy Spirit."

    And I showed quite a few passages where Paul affirmed so and encouraged his Christian brothers and sisters to realize and affirm so.


    You are a good example of such a person because you make this profession of having the Spirit of God, and then you twist the word to God which says clearly that unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God.


    Identify any twisting in any passage I elaborated in this thread.

    I bet you cannot.

    And Scripture STILL doesn't have your "No Saying You Have the Holy Spirit".

    Try again.


    Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?


    No "Know Ye Not You Should Not Say Ye Have the Holy Spirit."


    Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJV)


    Nothing in there commanding or saying a Christian should not say she or he has the Holy Spirit.

    The twisting in yours.


    You promote a false doctrine that preaches faith alone is sufficient for entry into the Kingdom of God, and that righteous living, the avoidance of sin and doing good works, are not necessary. You are one of the people that Jesus warns His followers to be wary of.


    I expounded First Corinthians 6:9-10 before you did, I bet you.

    Collect all the warnings, all the exhortations, all the scoldings, all the admonishings from the Bible you want. Get them ALL together, string them out one by one. And you STILL get no -

    "Don't Say You Have the Holy Spirit"

    Condemn Faith.
    Condemn Trust.
    Condemn Hope.
    Condemn Grace.
    Condemn the obedience of faith.
    Condemn the whole New Testament.

    And you STILL have no command " Christian, Don't You Dare Say You Have the Holy Spirit. "
  13. Standard memberRajk999
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    @sonship said
    @Rajk999

    Boasting about the possession of the Holy Spirit is the most common evil now running rampant in the Christian churches today.


    That does not prove that the Scriptures do not condone boasting of having the Holy Spirit.


    Jesus warned people to be careful about these types who profess to come in His name


    That still does not ...[text shortened]... ament.

    And you STILL have no command " Christian, Don't You Dare Say You Have the Holy Spirit. "
    Your continued boast is empty and meaningless before God, and is the very same problem that afflicted the Jews

    Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Romans 2:23-29 KJV)

    In a nutshell your boasting about the Holy Spirit is worthless. It is only worth something IF your follow the commandments which you say are not necessary. Your doctrine therefore dishonoureth God
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    @Rajk999

    Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Romans 2:23-29 KJV)


    Where in there am I told not to say I have the Holy Spirit ?
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    He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. (1 Cor. 6:17)


    I am joined to the Lord. I am one spirit with the Lord.
    Any other man or woman may also be joined to the Lord by faith.

    They too may be one spirit with the Lord.

    The Holy Spirit, which the Christians have from God, not from Rajk999.

    Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? (1 Cor. 6:19)

    "For you were bought with a price, So then glorify God in your body." (v.20)
    For we have received not the spirit of the world but the Spirit which is from God, that you may know the things which have been graciously given to us by God. (1 Cor. 2:12)


    And he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And in this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He gave to us. (1 John 3:24)
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