Originally posted by DoctorScribblesGod is all powerful and, as such, could easily have created fossils and oil fields. He could have simply made the Earth any age he wanted us to perceive it to be. Earth could be 2 days old and you'd never know the difference. We simply will never know one way or the other.
Do you think dinosaurs didn't exist at all, or that they co-existed with humans a few thousand years ago, or what?
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Originally posted by Hand of HecateBut wouldn't that reasoning apply to any empirical claim?
God is all powerful and, as such, could easily have created fossils and oil fields. He could have simply made the Earth any age he wanted us to perceive it to be. Earth could be 2 days old and you'd never know the difference. We simply will never know one way or the other.
If so, how does a Biblical epistemology differ at all from skepticism?
Doesn't this world view reduce God to Descartes' mal genie?
Originally posted by Hand of HecateIndeed, but you cannot discount the possibility that it was actually Muffy, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster or x or y or z.
God is all powerful and, as such, could easily have created fossils and oil fields. He could have simply made the Earth any age he wanted us to perceive it to be. Earth could be 2 days old and you'd never know the difference. We simply will never know one way or the other.
Do you believe in logic? As soon as you play the "magic" card, you remove all possibility of any type of logical inferrence about anything. God could magically put babies in mummy's tummy. God could magically make the planets revolve around the sun. God could magically put every single thought into your head. There is no stopping what God "could do" once you utilise the "goddunnit" card. The simple problem with using "Goddunnit" is that you have no proof of it, or even any evidence whatsoever, and it leads to the abandonment of trying to actually explain the world.
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesBut wouldn't that reasoning apply to any empirical claim?
But wouldn't that reasoning apply to any empirical claim?
If so, how does a Biblical epistemology differ at all from skepticism?
Doesn't this world view reduce God to Descartes' mal genie?
But of course, I fail to see why you have a problem with this. Everything you observe, know and feel has been touched by God. I think you make this life we are living too complex. You would be much happier if you surrendered you life to Jesus and trusted in the will of God.
If so, how does a Biblical epistemology differ at all from skepticism?
I don't know if I understand you meaning. Exploring the bible's validity is hardly a worthwhile cause. It is the Good Book and, some would argue, written by God. Ultimately, I feel that it is a guide to living a good klife as Jesus would expect us to, full of kindness towards our fellow man. Accepting this, taking a skeptical approach to the study of the bible is an enormous waste of time. One might as well take a skeptical appraoch to the study of the Owner's Manual for their car. This is a good analogy as there are many things in a car's Owner's Manual that don't make sense or are needlessly redundant, nonetheless, we still manage to drive our vehicles. So it is with the bible.
Doesn't this world view reduce God to Descartes' mal genie?
God is love and I would hardly equate him to an evil spirit. However, you hit upon a good point, the doubt we feel, the fear of mortality, and a host of other human failings is strictly due to the influence of the Devil. Without the Devil's influence, mankind would never have fallen from grace. We'd never feel doubt, always be at peace and be assured a place in heaven rather than have to prove our worthiness.
While we are on the subject of Descartes, it should be noted that he was a servent of Satan. Afterall, much of his theories and teachings have lead to the invention of computers and ultimately artifical intelligence that will be the down fall of humanity. Without his influence, engineering and math would be hundreds of years behind our current state. As a result global warming would be less, polution would be reduced and wars would still be fought in trenches rather than with missiles.
Originally posted by scottishinnzYou don't need evidence when you have faith.
Indeed, but you cannot discount the possibility that it was actually Muffy, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster or x or y or z.
Do you believe in logic? As soon as you play the "magic" card, you remove all possibility of any type of logical inferrence about anything. God could magically put babies in mummy's tummy. God could magically make the ...[text shortened]... hatsoever[/i], and it leads to the abandonment of trying to actually explain the world.
Originally posted by Hand of HecateAnd so long as people of faith do not try and get the teaching of science (esp evolution) thrown out of science classrooms, and do not try to politically impose their non-scientific worldview onto people, that's all fine. Heck, we won't even deny them the fruits of science.
You don't need evidence when you have faith.
Originally posted by Hand of HecateWhat a load of crap you are full of.
While we are on the subject of Descartes, it should be noted that he was a servent of Satan. Afterall, much of his theories and teachings have lead to the invention of computers and ultimately artifical intelligence that will be the down fall of humanity. Without his influence, engineering and math would be hundreds of years behind our current state ...[text shortened]... polution would be reduced and wars would still be fought in trenches rather than with missiles.
Originally posted by scottishinnzOK, so I was pushing the envelope with that last bit about Descartes. However, science has lead and will continue to lead to the destruction of the world. Still, faith and science may be our only saviours as well. Unfortunately, I doubt that we have enough of either to ensure our continued existence.
What a load of crap you are full of.
Originally posted by scottishinnzScience and religion are not necessarily mutually exclusive are they? God can be used to explain many of the gaps we have in our understanding of the physical universe.
And so long as people of faith do not try and get the teaching of science (esp evolution) thrown out of science classrooms, and do not try to politically impose their non-scientific worldview onto people, that's all fine. Heck, we won't even deny them the fruits of science.
Originally posted by Hand of HecatePeople are the cause of the destruction of the world, not science. Science is simply a process, a way of investigating the universe. It's a application of that knowledge which leads to problems. However, that self-same knowledge has also led to our generation enjoying the highest standard of living the world has ever seen.
OK, so I was pushing the envelope with that last bit about Descartes. However, science has lead and will continue to lead to the destruction of the world. Still, faith and science may be our only saviours as well. Unfortunately, I doubt that we have enough of either to ensure our continued existence.
Originally posted by scottishinnzAt what cost. This is a fragile world and we may be on the brink of destroying it with global warming, uncontrolled population growth, war and a host of other man made, science driven problems. Our survival is more uncertain than ever.
People are the cause of the destruction of the world, not science. Science is simply a process, a way of investigating the universe. It's a application of that knowledge which leads to problems. However, that self-same knowledge has also led to our generation enjoying the highest standard of living the world has ever seen.
Originally posted by Hand of Hecateha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha aha hah aha hah ahah ha
But, we do know! God did it.
If we are lead to understanding and valid theories later on, it is only by God's will.
Excuse me, whilst I choke a little...... phew, that's better! Nope, wait, I can't help it, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah ah ahah ahaaha ha ah haha
Originally posted by scottishinnzI'm glad you find me amusing. Mockery is the last refuge of a feeble mind.
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha aha hah aha hah ahah ha
Excuse me, whilst I choke a little...... phew, that's better! Nope, wait, I can't help it, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah ah ahah ahaaha ha ah haha