Experiencing God

Originally posted by googlefudge
Ok... you think that... but why?

What is you justification for believing that?

What is your evidence or justification for this belief?

Why do you think anyone else should believe this?

It has very little to do with a Book I read or anything .I don't expect anybody else to see it my way .I'm not trying to start my own religion. Just one guy out there trying to make sense of the whole thing . Religion has always left me flat in the end. Reading books can only take you so far, and still you are trusting in someone elses opinion with all Holy Books . Best for me to move ahead alone .

Originally posted by buckky
It has very little to do with a Book I read or anything .
I don't expect anybody else to see it my way .
I'm not trying to start my own religion.
Just one guy out there trying to make sense of the whole thing .
Religion has always left me flat in the end.
Reading books can only take you so far, and still you are trusting in someone else's opinion with all Holy Books .
Best for me to move ahead alone .

"It has very little to do with a Book I read or anything."

Ok, but I was trying to find out what it does have to do with, not what it doesn't have to do with.
I didn't automatically suppose it did have anything to do with a book, I want to understand where you are coming from and
discus that. Not decide where you are coming from and argue with a straw man.


"I don't expect anybody else to see it my way."

Well the existence or not of a god or gods, an afterlife or afterlives, of what the god or gods may want of us ect...
seem to me to be important issues of relevance to everyone.
If you are right then that would seem to be important, so shouldn't it be important what anyone and everyone else
thinks on the subject?
And if you can't demonstrate that your view is correct or worth following... doesn't that throw some doubt as to its trustworthiness?


"I'm not trying to start my own religion"
"Just one guy out there trying to make sense of the whole thing."

Ok, I am not accusing you of anything, just trying to understand your position and why you hold it.


"Religion has always left me flat in the end."

Do you mean organised religion?
What about religion [organised religion?] that 'leaves you flat' and in what way does it do this?
Do you have an actual belief in the existence of a god or gods?


"Reading books can only take you so far, and still you are trusting in someone else's opinion with all Holy Books."

Indeed, however...
I am a big fan of books and reading, and they are a great way of exploring a complex subject due to the depth and detail that
they can go into.
However any argument the author makes should be able to stand alone and be supported by logic and evidence.
Your belief in any argument that author makes should be based on the arguments validity and not on the authority of the author.
The rational, skeptical, and scientific tool-kit are specifically designed to address this (and other) issues.
When presenting an idea you should (in mathematical terms) show your working, so that people can see how you came to these
conclusions and what evidence you are using (or not using) to support them.


"Best for me to move ahead alone."

I am not sure quite what you mean by this, but I generally think that it's best to work with others.
Its far to easy to miss questions and reinforce ones own beliefs and opinions if not questioned and challenged by outside sources.
Also there is no point reinventing the wheel.
This is a subject that has been debated and discussed for millennia and many of the arguments and counter arguments are centuries old.
It makes sense to get up to speed on all the arguments made so far and start from there rather than starting completely from scratch.



I am curious to know more and to understand your position and beliefs.
I hope you can respond to this and expand on your views and explain them a little.

Originally posted by buckky
When a Hindu has a subjective experience of God through some religious practice or the other, is it the same experience that the Christian has of experiencing God . In other words are all religions gateways to the same God ?If you believe in one God then this must be the case .All the technicalities of a religion go right out the window when one experiences God for themself .

The classic Hindu experience of Brahman cannot be subjective as the ecstatic is desubjectified. The story that the altered person tells on coming back is subjective but couched in whatever symbols lie at hand so as to become part of shared tradition. Yet the story is never mistaken for the experience. Same goes for practically every kind of mystical experience that takes place within a tradition.

Without tradition you are likely to be administered strong drugs and kept inside high walls. Because the story is mistaken for the experience.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
So what if no one else made such a claim. you christians really get hung up on these claims.
THEy are just claims.

Jesus knocking on my door right now and telling me to knock it off because he is indeed the mountain and then doing some cool spiritual party trick, now that would be different. That would be something to take note of.

Jesus knocking on my door right now and telling me to knock it off because he is indeed the mountain and then doing some cool spiritual party trick, now that would be different. That would be something to take note of.

---------------karoly------------------------

Would you like Him to do something that you might take note of ? He might do something if He thought you were serious. However , I wonder if you are that serious or whether you have any respect for Him if you are thinking in terms of "party tricks". He will not be mocked. Humble yourself and ask sincerely. You won't regret it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So what if no one else made such a claim. you christians really get hung up on these claims.
THEy are just claims.

----------------------------karoly-------------------------------------

This is true , for you there are just claims , but they are claims that make Jesus a unique candidate for being the Truth. The claims are exactly the sort of thing you might expect from a God who was real and had absolute authority. It should at least make you a bit suspicious about who this guy was. If you are seriously seeking the truth then you will take note of Him.