1. Joined
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    12 May '05 02:55
    i think this is a reasonable question to ask, considering that many people don't really know where their faith lies, and considering that those who profess to know say that the second coming will be swift and unexpected:

    suppose i am an inquisitive person who is skeptical and question-asking in nature. suppose i am reading the bible but haven't decided whether i believe it or not yet.

    suppose further that in time, i will come to believe it and accept jesus as my savior (this i don't know yet, but presumably an omniscient being would forsee this)

    BOOM!! then judgment day is upon us. will i be saved, seeing as how god can forsee that i would have accepted jesus if only i had had some more time to sort out my thoughts?

    if not, then how is my case any different from the case of a convicted killer who just happened to accept jesus as his savior seconds before judgment came?
  2. Standard memberfrogstomp
    Bruno's Ghost
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    12 May '05 03:01
    Originally posted by LemonJello
    i think this is a reasonable question to ask, considering that many people don't really know where their faith lies, and considering that those who profess to know say that the second coming will be swift and [b]unexpected:

    suppose i am an inquisitive person who is skeptical and question-asking in nature. suppose i am reading the bible but haven ...[text shortened]... a convicted killer who just happened to accept jesus as his savior seconds before judgment came?[/b]
    do what you think is right.
  3. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
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    12 May '05 03:031 edit
    Originally posted by LemonJello
    i think this is a reasonable question to ask, considering that many people don't really know where their faith lies, and considering that those who profess to know say that the second coming will be swift and [b]unexpected:

    suppo ...[text shortened]... ppened to accept jesus as his savior seconds before judgment came?[/b]
    Your question only highlights the ridiculousness of a literal interpretation of a Second Coming,
    which comes from the absurd notion that Revelation ought to be read as a literal account of
    future events rather than a reflective account of past events.

    Nemesio
  4. Joined
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    12 May '05 11:322 edits
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    Your question only highlights the ridiculousness of a literal interpretation of a Second Coming, which comes from the absurd notion that Revelation ought to be read as a literal account of future events rather than a reflective account of past events.

    Revelation 1:7 - Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

    Are you saying that this has already happened in the past?!!! ๐Ÿ™„
  5. Standard memberColetti
    W.P. Extraordinaire
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    12 May '05 14:25
    Originally posted by LemonJello
    i think this is a reasonable question to ask, considering that many people don't really know where their faith lies, and considering that those who profess to know say that the second coming will be swift and [b]unexpected:

    suppose i am an inquisitive person who is skeptical and question-asking in nature. suppose i am reading the bible but haven ...[text shortened]... a convicted killer who just happened to accept jesus as his savior seconds before judgment came?[/b]
    If you are predestined to believe, then you will believe in due time. No one can know in advance when and where they will become a believer, or who will become a believer - but I believe God has determined already if you will believe - and he will give you that faith at the right time. It won't be too late. However, sooner is better than latter, so some study of Scripture and prayer is helpful.

    The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."
    (Joh 3:8 ESV)


  6. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    13 May '05 21:13
    Originally posted by Coletti
    If you are predestined to believe, then you will believe in due time. No one can know in advance when and where they will become a believer, or who will become a believer - but I believe God has determined already if you will believe - and he will give you that faith at the right time. It won't be too late. However, sooner is better than latter, so some ...[text shortened]... r where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."
    (Joh 3:8 ESV)[/quote]

    So it's not the fault of the nonbelievers that they will go to Hell? It was just an arbritrary decision of God's? What a freakish religion you have.
  7. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
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    13 May '05 21:17
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    So it's not the fault of the nonbelievers that they will go to Hell? It was just an arbritrary decision of God's? What a freakish religion you have.
    Welcome to Calvinism.
  8. Gangster Land
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    13 May '05 22:01
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    So it's not the fault of the nonbelievers that they will go to Hell? It was just an arbritrary decision of God's? What a freakish religion you have.
    When I was in high school I left my youth group over this very issue. If you think believers and non-believers fight you should see how believers vs. believers get it on. LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLLLLLLLE!!!

    TheSkipper
  9. R.I.P.
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    14 May '05 00:26
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    So it's not the fault of the nonbelievers that they will go to Hell? It was just an arbritrary decision of God's? What a freakish religion you have.
    Coletti ask me to pass on a message to you, saying that he couldn't answer you questions just at the moment because he was too busy getting his foot stuck out of his mouth๐Ÿ˜‰
  10. Joined
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    15 May '05 02:31
    Originally posted by Coletti
    If you are predestined to believe, then you will believe in due time. No one can know in advance when and where they will become a believer, or who will become a believer - but I believe God has determined already if you will believe - and he will give you that faith at the right time. It won't be too late. However, sooner is better than latter, so some ...[text shortened]... r where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."
    (Joh 3:8 ESV)[/quote]

    i find this answer so unsatisfactory.

    i understand that a big thing with you, coletti, is that you don't believe in free will, and we cannot do anything other than what we will to do. suppose this is true, and further suppose that god is indeed omniscient. why would god ever create a person that he knows will never come to accept him? isn't that just creating kindling for the fires of hell? god is freakishly proud (he must be, right?); so why would he create someone that he knows will defy him?
  11. Standard memberthesonofsaul
    King of the Ashes
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    15 May '05 02:37
    Originally posted by Coletti
    If you are predestined to believe, then you will believe in due time. No one can know in advance when and where they will become a believer, or who will become a believer - but I believe God has determined already if you will believe - and he will give you that faith at the right time. It won't be too late. However, sooner is better than latter, so some study of Scripture and prayer is helpful.
    So now there's no free will? I thought we were supposed to be free to choose one way or the other, but now you say it's predestined. And, if it is predestined, why is sooner better than later? What difference does it make if you alreaddy have a mark in God's book in the yea or nay column? Why are you bothering to argue in this forum or any other?
  12. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    15 May '05 04:22
    Originally posted by thesonofsaul
    So now there's no free will? I thought we were supposed to be free to choose one way or the other, but now you say it's predestined. And, if it is predestined, why is sooner better than later? What difference does it make if you alreaddy have a mark in God's book in the yea or nay column? Why are you bothering to argue in this forum or any other?
    or doing anything at all?
  13. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
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    15 May '05 05:081 edit
    Originally posted by thesonofsaul
    So now there's no free will? I thought we were supposed to be free to choose one way or the other, but now you say it's predestined. And, if it is predestined, why is sooner better than later? What difference does it make if you al ...[text shortened]... umn? Why are you bothering to argue in this forum or any other?
    Nope sorry; God picked a few out at the beginning of time and everybody else is unimportant flotsam. Check out the Westminister Confession of Faith at http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/index.html
    particulary Chapter 10 (and the end of Chapter IX) for confirmation that all but the Elect are worthless trash.
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