1. Standard membersonship
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    11 Oct '13 17:48
    In the New Testament there are five forms of forgiveness. I will not elaborate now. But the five forms of forgiveness are:

    1.) God's eternal forgiveness - (Related to the problem of eternal salvation.)

    2.) Forgiveness through God's people - ( Related to the problem of fellowship between God's children. This is forgiveness through a person or through the forgiving church.)

    3.) Forgiveness to restore fellowship - (Related to normal communion with the God in practical peaceful fellowship.)

    4.) The forgiveness of God's discipline. (Related to the way God as a Father, disciplines His children.)

    5.) The forgiveness in the millennial kingdom - (Related to the forgiveness in the age to come (Matt. 12:32).

    Examples of each of these Five forms of New Testament forgiveness may follow. Or I may open a whole thread dedicated to this.
  2. Joined
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    11 Oct '13 17:52
    Originally posted by sonship
    In the New Testament there are five forms of forgiveness. I will not elaborate now. But the five forms of forgiveness are:

    [b]1.)
    God's eternal forgiveness - (Related to the problem of eternal salvation.)

    2.) Forgiveness through God's people - ( Related to the problem of fellowship between God's children. This is forgiveness through a perso ...[text shortened]... e forms of New Testament forgiveness may follow. Or I may open a whole thread dedicated to this.[/b]
    Do you agree with robbie carrobie that if after receiving the truth a person wilfully sins that they will not be forgiven?

    I'm not sure what the outcome of not being forgiven means but I'm sure robbie carrobie doesn't either.
  3. Subscribersonhouse
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    11 Oct '13 17:59
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Do you agree with robbie carrobie that if after receiving the truth a person wilfully sins that they will not be forgiven?

    I'm not sure what the outcome of not being forgiven means but I'm sure robbie carrobie doesn't either.
    Since your god is entirely man made it will be up to the people involved to forgive or not.
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    11 Oct '13 18:00
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Since your god is entirely man made it will be up to the people involved to forgive or not.
    Since my God is not entirely man made, you are entirely wrong.

    Fun isn't it.
  5. Standard membersonship
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    11 Oct '13 18:031 edit
    1.) God's eternal forgiveness - (Related to the problem of eternal salvation.)

    This is God's forgiveness for eternal salvation. It is received in this age. It counts for eternity.

    Hebrews 9:22 - "And without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness."

    There is eternal forgiveness because Christ was judged for one's sins, indicated by the one act of His shedding His blood.

    Matthew 26:28 - "For this is My blood of the covenant, which is being poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."

    No matter how bad a man's sins are, they can be forgiven because Jesus was judged on the cross, indicated by the shedding of His blood. It is not forgiveness without a price. It is not "free" from God's perspective because "without the shedding of blood" (the blood of the Son of God) "there is no forgiveness."

    It is not God's being lenient towards the guilty. It is God causing JUDGEMENT on His Son on behalf of the guilty. The debt is paid in Christ's death forever. The forgiveness is not the forgiveness of one who still owes to the law of God. Rather it is the forgiveness of one whose debt HAS BEEN PAID for eternity by Christ.

    God is only able to forgive because our sins were judged in Christ. The Son of God shed His precious blood to pay the price. This is something Christ sought as a request out of His great love for the sinner.

    Millions of pages written here could not exhaust speaking about this. But we obtain this forgiveness through faith (Acts 10:43; 13:39).

    If anyone has a comment on this form of forgiveness please indicate the number I have given - #1.
  6. Standard membersonship
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    11 Oct '13 18:321 edit
    2.) Forgiveness through God's people - ( Related to the problem of fellowship between God's children. This is forgiveness through a person or through the forgiving church.)

    John 20:23 says "Whosever sins you forgive, they are forgiven them; and whosoever sins you retain, they are retained."

    First we pay some attention to what this verse does NOT mean.

    This is not men granting to other men forgiveness for eternal salvation. This does not mean that the apostles have authority to grant eternal forgiveness to men on earth. People who think this verse means that argue for the Pope deciding who is forgiven forever and who will perish in hell.

    This passage does NOT establish the pope's authority to reconcile men to God forever or decide that they have lost eternal salvation. It does not mean that if Peter does not forgive you then you will not be saved.

    Now what this verse means.

    The "you" in the verse is plural and not singular. This is the forgiveness of the church, of the assembly. It is not the forgiveness granted by an individual but by a corporate body.

    It is the corporate body who has been indwelt by the Holy Spirit. This is important because of verses 22 and 23 -

    "And when He had said this, He breathed into them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit. Whosever sins you forgive, they are forgiven them; and whosever sins you retain, they are retained."

    The forgiveness of the church is based on the forgiveness of God. It is the Holy Spirit that enlightens the church to realize that a certain brother's sins have been forgiven. They receive him because they sense with spiritual wisdom that God has received him. If they are not clear that God has received him, they may reject him from fellowshipping with the assembly.

    It is based on the power of and instruction of the Holy Spirit. The church declares what God has already done.

    If the church is not clear that he is forgiven but God has forgiven him, this does corporate unclarity does not make him not saved. Saul, who became Paul, was so bad a persecutor of the churches that the brothers were not sure that he was a real disciple. But he was.

    Though they were afraid to receive Paul, this did not effect his eternal redmption before God. Though Paul came to Jerusalem and desired to join himself to the disciples. But they were still afraid of him.

    Only after Barnabus testified for him was Paul able to be with the disciples coming in and going out of Jerusalem (Acts 9:26-28). The church cannot forgive or retain one's sins directly; it only declares that one's sins are forgiven or not forgiven before God, deciding if he may have fellowship and communion among the disciples.

    More could be written on this. This is enough now. If any objection or comment, please indicate the form # 2.
  7. Standard membersonship
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    11 Oct '13 18:461 edit
    3.) Forgiveness to restore fellowship - (Related to normal communion with the God in practical peaceful fellowship.)

    Pages and pages could be written concerning this. This is a short explanation.

    First John 2:1,2 says My little children, these things I write to you that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for those of the whole world."

    And First John 1:9 says "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

    No Christian is aware of all of his faults. As he begins to walk with God in obedience the light will gradually grow brighter and brighter in his conscience. What was OK yesterday will today be pointed out as a sin by the encreased sensativity of the conscience.

    I spoke roughtly with my wife for months. One day the light becomes a little brighter in my conscience. The Holy Spirit says in essence - "You know you should apologize for the way you just spoke to your wife."

    Maybe for more than a year you did not feel convicted about doing something. But as you read more of the Bible and walk by the Spirit you become more keen in your conscience. The need to confess sins which preciously you did not realize were sins comes up. The Bible instructs us to confess our sins as we become aware of them and turn to the Spirit of Jesus to forsake those sins.

    This is the confession and forgiveness to maintain a steady deepening walk with the Lord. In every case the Christian should confess immediately upon realizing that he has sinned. He should stand upon the precious blood as the sure and faithful means in which he is cleansed from every sin.

    He has an attorney. He has an Advocate - Jesus Christ the Righteous pleading for his case. This is crucial because Satan ever attacks man's conscience to try to discourage him from following the Lord Jesus.

    If anyone has a comment or question about this form of forgiveness please indicate # 3. This is forgiveness to restore fellowship. There is no break in the eternal relationship with the eternal Redeemer. But in the daily life there may be a interruption of communion because of sins not confessed.

    So this form of forgiveness is vital and a life long matter. It is also an ever deepening matter as the Christian conscience become keener and keener as we grow in the divine life.
  8. Standard membersonship
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    11 Oct '13 18:48
    I would like to rest a little before I write about #4 and #5 remaining forms of forgiveness.
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    11 Oct '13 18:56
    Originally posted by sonship
    I would like to rest a little before I write about [b]#4 and #5 remaining forms of forgiveness.[/b]
    You have a sit down dude, you've been cracking 'em out for days!
  10. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    11 Oct '13 19:11
    Originally posted by sonship
    I would like to rest a little before I write about [b]#4 and #5 remaining forms of forgiveness.[/b]
    Not allowed! Any delay here will hold up the much-anticipated Six Statutes of Salvation.
  11. SubscriberSuzianne
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    11 Oct '13 19:48
    Originally posted by divegeester
    You have a sit down dude, you've been cracking 'em out for days!
    Never heard of cracking something out.

    I have heard of cranking something out, though.
  12. Subscribersonhouse
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    11 Oct '13 20:272 edits
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Since my God is not entirely man made, you are entirely wrong.

    Fun isn't it.
    Well prove it, call this god down for me to talk to. Human's telling me about a god? No dice. I want to hear it from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

    Human's telling me, instructing me, about a god would be like rabbits trying to tell me about race cars. Not going to happen. I want to hear about race cars, I don't consult rabbits, I consult race car people.

    If your god is too dam busy to talk to me direct, goodbye charlie, 2 can play at that game. He/She/it, whatever, refuses to talk to me directly, fine. I don't need it then. I for sure don't need the pity of self proclaimed instructors in religion to tell me what it's all about.

    If this god want to intstruct ME, then so be it, it comes to me, I'll listen. Going through secondary channels does not and never will work for me, secondary channels being human's who have the word. All they have is fantasy.
  13. Standard membersonship
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    11 Oct '13 20:45
    Originally posted by divegeester
    You have a sit down dude, you've been cracking 'em out for days!
    LOL! I appreciate the concern.
  14. Standard membersonship
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    11 Oct '13 21:371 edit
    4.) The forgiveness of God's discipline. (Related to the way God as a Father, disciplines His children.)

    Sometimes a man may sin. And he can be forgiven by God for his sin. However he suffers some consequences just the same.

    David sinned in stealing Uriah's wife Bathsheba and then arranging to have him murdered. David latter repented with great sorrow and God forgave him. However in spite of the forgiveness David suffered for much of the rest of his life for his sin.

    A man may commit a crime. He accepts Jesus as his Savior and is saved forever. He is forgiven. However, he may have to go to prison for his crime just the same. Sometimes a believer must experience consequences in this life though his sin has been forgiven.

    Much could be written and many examples could be given from the Bible.

    Though God forgave David for his adultery the prophet Nathan informed David of divine consequences -

    "Now therefore the sword shall never depart from your house; because you have despised Me [God], and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife .... Behold, I will raise up evil against you out of your own house, and I will take your wives before your eyes, and give them unto your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of the sun. For you did t secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun." (Second Samuel 12:10-12)

    You may read all the trouble David had after this failure. God did forgive him but God DISCIPLINED him.

    "And David to Nathan, I have sinned against Jehovah. And Nathan said to David, Jehovah has also put away your sin; you will not die. NEVERTHELESS, because you have given the enemies of Jehovah much occasion to blaspheme Him because of this thing, the son who is born to you shall also surely die." (2 Sam. 12:13,14)

    This is forgiveness but with chastisement.
    This is forgiveness with discipline through consequences.
    This is being justified before God for sinning but not completely escaping the consequences of having sinned.

    More can be written. If anyone has comment on this form of forgiveness please indicate #4.
  15. Standard membersonship
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    11 Oct '13 22:09
    5.) The forgiveness in the millennial kingdom - (Related to the forgiveness in the age to come (Matt. 12:32).

    Jesus gave a parable in Matthew 18:21-35. It is a teaching on the need for disciples of Christ to forgive one another. It is similar to the request in the so called "Lord's Prayer" - 'Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." .

    You will have to read that teaching. I will not write out verses 21 through 35 of Matthew 18. Go read it and come back.

    In the teaching parable the unforgiving servant of the master is placed in custody until he learns the lesson of forgiveness.

    "Then the master called him" [the unforgiving servant] " and said to him, Evil slave, all that debt I forgave you, because you begged me. Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave even as I had mercy on you?

    And his master became angry and delived him to the torturers until he would repay all that was owed.

    So will My heavenly Father do to you if each of you does not forgive his brother from your hearts." (vs.32-35)


    Since the parable is about the master settling accounts with his servants the best interpretation is that it relates to Christ's second coming. Then at that time every Christian will give an account of his or her Christian life before the judgment seat of Christ.

    "So also will My heavenly Father do to you if each one of you does not forgive his brother from your hearts."

    The servant has eternal redemption. But he may be disciplined UNTIL a lesson is learned in the millennial kingdom after the time the Lord Jesus settles accounts concerning his service as a Christian.

    "Until" indicates that this discipline is temporary. If it was eternal punishment then there would be no "until involved for it would be forever.

    So when Jesus says - "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall be shown mercy" (Matt. 5:7) He is speaking of mercy shown His saved servants for failures effecting their position in the millennial kingdom.

    The ones obtaining mercy are already eternally redeemed For eternal life they are justified. But their reward in the thousand year kingdom before the eternal age is dependent upon dispensational forgiveness. If they were forgiving and merciful the Lord will be merciful to them concerning their position during the millennium.

    "For if you forgive men their offenses, your heavenly Father will forgive your offenses. But if you do not forgive men their offenses, neither will your Father forgive your offenses." (Matt. 6:14,15)

    Eternal forgiveness is through faith in Christ.
    But forgiveness for determining one's enjoyment during the millennium is effected by how forgiving the Christian towards others after being saved.

    No one rejecting Christ as Lord will be saved eternally just because he is forgiving. If he does not believe in the Son of God, being merciful to others will not justify him for eternal life. Whether it effects the degree of his punishment may be arguable.

    However the teaching of being a merciful servant of the Lord Jesus and therefore receiving mercy from the Lord, is related to the reward or discipline of the thousand year millennial kingdom.

    Any comment on this I would like to be accompanied with a #5 indicator.
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