1. Subscribersonhouse
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    26 Feb '13 15:14
    Here it is some 2,000 years after the birth of Paulism, I mean Christianity, and there are people on Earth who never heard of him and never will. Why would a god arrange things in such a way as to have started what is supposed to be a universal religion and yet it was started only in one language by one small sect of people in a far away place in the world?

    Why wouldn't your god have spoken to ALL people at the same time, since it should be well within the power of a god to do so.

    To me that just says the entire god thing is a man made construct, totally invented by men for the express purpose of building a power structure capable of controlling people and specifically to have a religious grounding to subjugate women (A man is worth 50 shekels and a woman 35, right there in your bible)
  2. Standard memberKepler
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    26 Feb '13 15:18
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Here it is some 2,000 years after the birth of Paulism, I mean Christianity, and there are people on Earth who never heard of him and never will. Why would a god arrange things in such a way as to have started what is supposed to be a universal religion and yet it was started only in one language by one small sect of people in a far away place in the world? ...[text shortened]... unding to subjugate women (A man is worth 50 shekels and a woman 35, right there in your bible)
    The price thing is buying by weight. Blokes weigh more than ladies in general.
  3. SubscriberSuzianne
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    26 Feb '13 16:221 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Why wouldn't your god have spoken to ALL people at the same time, since it should be well within the power of a god to do so.
    This argument is specious at best.

    This old "why doesn't/didn't God just come down and do "X" because He easily could have done so if He is indeed God?" is someone just not thinking it through.

    If, for example, God did just appropriate all TV and radio frequencies on Earth for one hour and spoke to them and proved His existence (perhaps the ultimate simulcast with events happening simultaneously over the entire Earth to corroborate His story, verified by independent media), wouldn't that mean that to deny Him after that would just be supremely stupid and not in anyone's best interest? This would leave no choice (unless you're stupid, or just stubborn) but to accept Him. This would totally and completely deny Faith and give Man no choice in the matter. The entire foundation of all religion on this planet is that one must choose one's God through personal Faith. We must believe even though we have no proof. We must all independently choose our own fate. We are tasked with choosing God after a lifetime of living among humans and among sin. We can make the right choice, but for some reason some people keep themselves from fulfilling their righteous destiny. For a myriad of reasons, Man chooses to stay distant from God. For some, they live a life of worshipping themselves and cannot bring themselves to acknowledge a higher being. Some spend their whole lives feeling unworthy of God's love. Most fall somewhere in between. It is part of Man's natural destiny to come home to God, but as a species, we put up a tremendous amount of roadblocks, some inadvertent, some on purpose. But we are all here to make a choice. And we cannot make this choice in good faith if we are told by God what the right choice is.
  4. Standard memberRBHILL
    Acts 13:48
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    26 Feb '13 16:28
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Here it is some 2,000 years after the birth of Paulism, I mean Christianity, and there are people on Earth who never heard of him and never will. Why would a god arrange things in such a way as to have started what is supposed to be a universal religion and yet it was started only in one language by one small sect of people in a far away place in the world? ...[text shortened]... unding to subjugate women (A man is worth 50 shekels and a woman 35, right there in your bible)
    Look at the book I posted about muslims having dreams of Jesus.
  5. Joined
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    26 Feb '13 16:29
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    This argument is specious at best.

    This old "why doesn't/didn't God just come down and do "X" because He easily could have done so if He is indeed God?" is someone just not thinking it through.

    If, for example, God did just appropriate all TV and radio frequencies on Earth for one hour and spoke to them and proved His existence (perhaps the ultimate s ...[text shortened]... annot make this choice in good faith if we are told by God what the right choice is.
    Suzianne, didn't the Jews deny god after the red sea trick ,pillar of fire etc,seems to me the last thing god need be concerned with is proving himself!!!!!!
  6. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    26 Feb '13 16:30
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Here it is some 2,000 years after the birth of Paulism, I mean Christianity, and there are people on Earth who never heard of him and never will. Why would a god arrange things in such a way as to have started what is supposed to be a universal religion and yet it was started only in one language by one small sect of people in a far away place in the world? ...[text shortened]... unding to subjugate women (A man is worth 50 shekels and a woman 35, right there in your bible)
    Since homo sapiens have been around for about 200,000 years, it's only been possible to be a Christian for 1% of human history. Not exactly a universal and eternal religion, is it? More like a johnny-come-lately religion.
  7. Joined
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    26 Feb '13 16:382 edits
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Here it is some 2,000 years after the birth of Paulism, I mean Christianity, and there are people on Earth who never heard of him and never will. Why would a god arrange things in such a way as to have started what is supposed to be a universal religion and yet it was started only in one language by one small sect of people in a far away place in the world? unding to subjugate women (A man is worth 50 shekels and a woman 35, right there in your bible)
    To me that just says the entire god thing is a man made construct, totally invented by men...specifically to have a religious grounding to subjugate women (A man is worth 50 shekels and a woman 35, right there in your bible)

    If you're going to push the "Paulism" angle, you might as well cite Paul in the NT. Many Christians do not consider the OT as being important to their beliefs (except for when they are looking to support their bigotry towards homosexuals for example). Even at that, many are willing to dismiss the following as being "a sign of the culture and the times", yet hold fast to Paul's similarly bigotted attitude towards homosexuality.

    Here are a couple to choose from:
    Ephesians 5
    22Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

    1 Timothy 2
    11Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
  8. Joined
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    26 Feb '13 16:43
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Here it is some 2,000 yea... [text shortened]... omen (A man is worth 50 shekels and a woman 35, right there in your bible)
    1) Christianity is founded/based on Jesus not Paul, but I think you knew that.

    2) Christianity is not a religion but a faith, there is a difference.

    3) God did not start any religion, this was and continues to be man’s doing.

    4) Christianity is based on love which is the universal language as God is love. One group of people (jews) carried the oracles of God throughout the ages, which have now been given to the world, for all.

    5) The scriptures clearly state that the truth will be preached in the whole world and then the end will come. See youversion.com for a list of translations in different languages (this is only one organization), you will be impressed and many are available in audio in the native tongue, language is not a barrier thanks to science 😉 The whole of the earth shall hear of him, and is!

    2 Peter 3:9

    The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some think of slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance.


    Matthew 24:14

    14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.


    To me that just says the entire god thing is a man made construct, totally invented by men for the express purpose of building a power structure capable of controlling people and specifically to have a religious grounding to subjugate women (A man is worth 50 shekels and a woman 35, right there in your bible)


    Geewhiz man, the god thing is man made, but God is eternal, I AM?

    So I guess the OP is a troll, perhaps? In any event, you hypothesis was a little off.
  9. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    26 Feb '13 16:45
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    [b]To me that just says the entire god thing is a man made construct, totally invented by men...specifically to have a religious grounding to subjugate women (A man is worth 50 shekels and a woman 35, right there in your bible)

    If you're going to push the "Paulism" angle, you might as well cite Paul in the NT. Many Christians do not consider the OT ...[text shortened]... then Eve; 14and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.[/b]
    Biblical scholars widely consider First and Second Timothy to be pseudepigraphic and they are about evenly divided on Ephesians.
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    26 Feb '13 16:50
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Biblical scholars widely consider First and Second Timothy to be pseudepigraphic and they are about evenly divided on Ephesians.
    From what I can tell, the majority of Christians don't put much stock in what 'Biblical scholars' have to say regarding authorship and many other things.
  11. Joined
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    26 Feb '13 17:00
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    1) Christianity is founded/based on Jesus not Paul, but I think you knew that.

    2) Christianity is not a religion but a faith, there is a difference.

    3) God did not start any religion, this was and continues to be man’s doing.

    4) Christianity is based on love which is the universal language as God is love. One group of people (jews) carried the oracle ...[text shortened]... I AM?

    So I guess the OP is a troll, perhaps? In any event, you hypothesis was a little off.
    1) Christianity is founded/based on Jesus not Paul, but I think you knew that.

    Actually the central tenets of Christianity is largely based on the doctrine of Paul rather than the doctrine of Jesus. I assume that that was what was meant in the OP.

    4) Christianity is based on love which is the universal language as God is love.

    All things considered, it hasn't shown to be the case over the years.

    You're basically picking nits with many of your other objections. Evidently in a desperate attempt to deem "the OP is a troll".
  12. Donationrwingett
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    26 Feb '13 17:10
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    From what I can tell, the majority of Christians don't put much stock in what 'Biblical scholars' have to say regarding authorship and many other things.
    True, but if you're going to bash Paul, you have to consider that he probably didn't actually write everything that is attributed to him in the bible.
  13. Cape Town
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    26 Feb '13 17:23
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    This would totally and completely deny Faith and give Man no choice in the matter.
    Is faith ever a choice? My lack of faith is most certainly not a choice. The clear evidence that God does not exist leaves me no choice (as I am neither stupid, nor just stubborn).

    The entire foundation of all religion on this planet....
    You mean your particular brand of your religion. You over-generalise.

    We must believe even though we have no proof.
    Must? Why? Surely 'must' implies lack of choice?

    We are tasked with choosing God after a lifetime of living among humans and among sin.
    But apparently tasked, without actually being given the task ie you have to first have faith before you know the task to have faith exists. Bit of a catch 22 that one.

    We can make the right choice, but for some reason some people keep themselves from fulfilling their righteous destiny.
    A lack of evidence duh!

    For some, they live a life of worshipping themselves and cannot bring themselves to acknowledge a higher being.
    'bring themselves to acknowledge'? Remember that we are talking here about something for which there is no clear evidence.
    You whole stance is so full of self contradiction is unbelievable that you actually think you are making sense.

    It is part of Man's natural destiny to come home to God, but as a species, we put up a tremendous amount of roadblocks, some inadvertent, some on purpose. But we are all here to make a choice.
    Or at least you have faith that it is so. You don't have any good reasons for believing it to be so, and you were not told by God. How did you know? Did you arbitrarily pick a religion? Did you just make it all up?
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    26 Feb '13 17:24
    Originally posted by rwingett
    True, but if you're going to bash Paul, you have to consider that he probably didn't actually write everything that is attributed to him in the bible.
    I suppose. But the reality is that for the majority of Christians, the probabilities of how the Bible was cobbled together and revised over the years don't amount to a hill of beans. For that matter, Jesus probably didn't say everything that is attributed to Him either, but people generally speak as if He did.
  15. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    26 Feb '13 20:03
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    1) Christianity is founded/based on Jesus not Paul,
    How much of the NT is written by Jesus?
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