For KellyJay: on The Divine Conspiracy

Originally posted by twhitehead
I thought the question we were trying to answer was how to judge a standard, not whether or not a theory meets a given standard. (I am not saying you are wrong, just asking for clarification about what is being discussed).

"Judging a standard" seems to lead to an infinite regress.

Originally posted by JS357
"Judging a standard" seems to lead to an infinite regress.

I guess it could. If find that many discussions about ethics confuse discussions of the standard with discussions of fleshing out that standard. As far as I know, all ethical theories start with an assumed standard and go from there. None can satisfactorily justify that standard beyond a general agreement that that is what we intuitively believe to be right.

Originally posted by LemonJello
That's fine, but there are many God-free secular moral theories that purport to outline a "real right and wrong…that does not depend on man's views". For example, Willard mentions a couple of them in the quote above, utilitarianism and Kantianism. Presumably he mentions these two because one is consequentialist and the other is deontological, which are ...[text shortened]... ard doesn't seem to think it is a problem for the theist to choose a correct one out of the lot.

You got me thinking that may be why God calls us witnesses. I do believe there is a real
right and wrong we live out our lives witnessing it as we go. Even our study of it doesn't
allow us to see it as much as our living does. With study we are always looking in from the
outside while living it we express the truth as we see it. We justify bad behavior by given
the reasons for it, we pat ourselves on the back for that which we deem good. We hold
others accountable for what we think they did wrong, and we show we know the truth of
it by our own words addressing each issue. I guess on judgment day we really will be
without excuse.

Originally posted by KellyJay
You got me thinking that may be why God calls us witnesses. I do believe there is a real
right and wrong we live out our lives witnessing it as we go. Even our study of it doesn't
allow us to see it as much as our living does. With study we are always looking in from the
outside while living it we express the truth as we see it. We justify bad behavior b ...[text shortened]... our own words addressing each issue. I guess on judgment day we really will be
without excuse.

God calls us "witnesses" if we walk according to His moral parameters and see the good in them and tell others.
The Israelites of old demonstrated that when they followed God's way they suceeded and when they fell away it brought disaster.
Today's world is experiencing the result of not following God's way.

God's way is an external system of moral living that is designed for mankind and produces the best result in terms of a "good" life.
That moral system is laid out for all in God's Word of Truth, the Bible.
When we study the Bible we learn the moral way and we can apply it for our benefit.
It is not something we can learn on our own without God's direction.
As it says in Psalms, "Your Word is a lamp unto my roadway, a light unto mypath."

Originally posted by roigam
God calls us "witnesses" if we walk according to His moral parameters and see the good in them and tell others.
The Israelites of old demonstrated that when they followed God's way they suceeded and when they fell away it brought disaster.
Today's world is experiencing the result of not following God's way.

God's way is an external system of moral living ...[text shortened]... 's direction.
As it says in Psalms, "Your Word is a lamp unto my roadway, a light unto mypath."

I don't believe God calls us "witnesses" only **if we walk** according to His moral
parameters. I believe each and everyone of us are going to give an account for each
word, actions, and inactions. As we go through life we will reveal what happens as we lie,
steal, tell the truth, return goods and so on. Every little thing done in secret will be
revealed and laid out on complete display.

We were made to contain God. We can only be satisfied ultimately by being filled with God.

The Mystery of and Meaning of Life

YouTube&list=PLMq-0sdvtyJZ66Age69OSeWbV61XGC0wi

Originally posted by KellyJay
I don't believe God calls us "witnesses" only **if we walk** according to His moral
parameters. I believe each and everyone of us are going to give an account for each
word, actions, and inactions. As we go through life we will reveal what happens as we lie,
steal, tell the truth, return goods and so on. Every little thing done in secret will be
revealed and laid out on complete display.

exactly. we prove out the goodness of God's moral code.
we are witnesses for Him.
we all have free will and can follow that code or not.
If not we are trying to witness against Him. do we not pay the price for our errors?
The Bible says, (Galatians 6:7) Do not be misled: God is not one to be mocked. For whatever a person is sowing, this he will also reap;

Originally posted by sonship
We were made to contain God. We can only be satisfied ultimately by being filled with God.

[b] The Mystery of and Meaning of Life

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGnRsdieIBo&list=PLMq-0sdvtyJZ66Age69OSeWbV61XGC0wi[/b]

which God?

Originally posted by roigam
exactly. we prove out the goodness of God's moral code.
we are witnesses for Him.
we all have free will and can follow that code or not.
If not we are trying to witness against Him. do we not pay the price for our errors?
The Bible says, (Galatians 6:7) Do not be misled: God is not one to be mocked. For whatever a person is sowing, this he will also reap;

Doesn't matter what we are "trying" to witness for we will end up witnessing the truth even
if all we do is show how evil works by following it our whole lives. I get God isn't mocked
and I do believe we reap what we sow, that is part of whole process. It will all be laid bare
for all to see, nothing hidden will remain so, we will given an account of every idle word we
speak.