1. Maryland
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    20 Nov '07 13:28
    What a croc! People ask Jesus to forgive their sins. This is rather audacious. The person who was sinned against should be asked for forgiveness, not a third party!
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    20 Nov '07 15:23
    Originally posted by 667joe
    What a croc! People ask Jesus to forgive their sins. This is rather audacious. The person who was sinned against should be asked for forgiveness, not a third party!
    There are two parts to sinning. One is harm you do to yourself as well as what you do to others. The goal of Christianity is to stop people from sinning and causing themselves harm and others harm. This is why people come to Christ. Then once we have had a change of heart or have been "healed" from doing harm we then go to the person to ask for forgiveness. Otherwise we will continue to sin unless we have become repentant.
  3. Maryland
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    20 Nov '07 16:35
    People don't need Jesus to know they have harmed another indiviual and should make proper amends. Jesus's forgiveness is meaningless.
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    20 Nov '07 18:451 edit
    Originally posted by 667joe
    People don't need Jesus to know they have harmed another indiviual and should make proper amends. Jesus's forgiveness is meaningless.
    Jesus' forgiveness is meaningless if he does not have power over sin and death. However, if he, in fact, does have such power then it is all that matters. That is for you to decide. As for myself, he has broken chains of sin in my own life and given me a love for others that impeedes me from sinning further against others as well as giving me the motiviation for reconciling past hurts.
  5. Maryland
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    20 Nov '07 19:35
    You have given the power to yourself.Do you think you will never harm another again?
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    21 Nov '07 02:49
    Originally posted by 667joe
    You have given the power to yourself.Do you think you will never harm another again?
    That is just it. I don't have power over sin and death. Therefore, if I do not submit to the one that has such power then yes, I will sin against another again.
  7. SubscriberAThousandYoung
    Just another day
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    21 Nov '07 03:24
    Originally posted by whodey
    That is just it. I don't have power over sin and death. Therefore, if I do not submit to the one that has such power then yes, I will sin against another again.
    Are you suggesting that you no longer sin?
  8. Cape Town
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    21 Nov '07 07:08
    Originally posted by whodey
    The goal of Christianity is to stop people from sinning and causing themselves harm and others harm.
    I thought Christianity was a belief system. How does a belief system have goals? I always thought that the goal of most Christians was to avoid going to hell (and try to get rid of some of their guilt).
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    22 Nov '07 01:29
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Are you suggesting that you no longer sin?
    The act of submission is a daily act. For example, Christ once told his disciples to take up their cross daily for the kingdoms sake.
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    22 Nov '07 01:31
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I thought Christianity was a belief system. How does a belief system have goals? I always thought that the goal of most Christians was to avoid going to hell (and try to get rid of some of their guilt).
    My belief system is a daily walk with my God and not a one time event in a vacuum. As for hell, so long as I am not seperated from him I am not in hell...that includes being in this present world.
  11. Cape Town
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    22 Nov '07 11:09
    Originally posted by whodey
    My belief system is a daily walk with my God and not a one time event in a vacuum. As for hell, so long as I am not seperated from him I am not in hell...that includes being in this present world.
    Do do you agree that your ultimate goal is to stay out of hell. ie the goals you listed earlier are merely subgoals for the stay out of hell goal.
  12. DonationPawnokeyhole
    Krackpot Kibitzer
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    22 Nov '07 15:59
    Originally posted by 667joe
    What a croc! People ask Jesus to forgive their sins. This is rather audacious. The person who was sinned against should be asked for forgiveness, not a third party!
    Perhaps you indirectly offend Jesus by sinning against another. And you then ask Jesus's forgiveness for the meta-sin offending him.

    Another theological puzzler solved!

    But...

    Should you ask God's forgiveness too? If Jesus and God are one, it shouldn't matter: you could choose either, and the other will hear. But can you pray to the Holy Spirit for forgiveness? I never heard of a Catholic doing so. However, it should be technically possible, if all three are one. Or does the precise theoacoustic interface used matter?

    Hmm....
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