Originally posted by Conrau KThis is actually a good argument for there being a God. Most people accept that we have free will and are accountable for our actions.
Given that our consciousness is the product of chemicals and their interactions and influences from the environment, and that our thoughts are dictated by predispositions (as the result of inheritance). Then it is impossible that we can truly make a free decision. Hence, we have no free will.
This also has implications for law. Is a person truly accountab ably all other theists) have been lied to in some way as a consequence.
Originally posted by The Chess ExpressThe perception of argument is in the eyes of the beholder. I look
This is actually a good argument for there being a God. Most people accept that we have free will and are accountable for our actions.
Originally posted by Conrau KWell, you make a lot of assumptions here.
I dont understand
Originally posted by sonhouseI agree that these sorts of things go on all the time, but I don’t agree that it is what God wants us to do.
The perception of argument is in the eyes of the beholder. I look
at the same statement and come to agree with it, there is no god.
Or if there is, it is ignoring earth and we are on our own, which has
been used by those powermongers who use religious arguments to
simply build a power base all the while maintaining an exterior
of devout piousness but ...[text shortened]... ing, YES! I did it, I fooled those
idiots into believing and at the same time made myself rich.
Originally posted by The Chess ExpressCertain genes can presdispose a person to depression. Hence, that person is not accountable for their depression (or their potential suicide).
[b]Well, you make a lot of assumptions here.
It has not been shown that our consciousness is the product of chemical reactions, or that our thoughts are not our own. These are just theories. There are also theories that state that consciousness shapes our material world.
Most people hold a criminal responsible for his/her actions. A murder is ...[text shortened]... h easier to believe than to say that criminals have no choice in the matter (in most cases that is).
Originally posted by Conrau KCertain genes can presdispose a person to depression. Hence, that person is not accountable for their depression (or their potential suicide).
Certain genes can presdispose a person to depression. Hence, that person is not accountable for their depression (or their potential suicide).
Certain chemicals can predispose a person to gambling. Hence, that person is not accountable for their depression (or their potential privation).
See where i'm going?
If these psychological phenomenon ions. They are the product of their genes and the environment. Which is not their fault.
Originally posted by The Chess ExpressThe problem with your statement about what god wants us do do
I agree that these sorts of things go on all the time, but I don’t agree that it is what God wants us to do.
To look at the actions of those who use religion for evil purposes and say that there is no God because of them is foolish. Ask yourself if those guys are following their scripture. You’ll probably find that in most cases they are not.
Originally posted by The Chess ExpressI think his point is that, on a microscopic level, everything has a cause and effect and, therefore
We all have free will, but we are also influenced by nature and nurture. This is about as much as gene theory has shown.
While perhaps theoretically his statement is true (and I am not yet sure it is), it is a practicalI am not suggesting determinacy. I believe that the future is indetermined, however this does not justify the free will.
impossibility, because the microscopic chemical reactions to which he is refering are subject to
chaos, which is (by definition) immeasurable. That is, initial conditions are neither measurable
nor predictable. So, even if theoretically there is no 'free will,' practically there is.
Originally posted by OmnislashWhy does not consciousness have to be created?
If/when we create consciousness from dead chemicals, I will consider entertaining this notion. Being that this has yet to pass, it will have to be forgiven of me that I find the assumptive arguement less than compelling.
Originally posted by sonhouseThe problem with your statement about what god wants us do do
The problem with your statement about what god wants us do do
is this: What you think of about god doesn't come from yourself,
it comes from what other men have said is what god wants us to do.
When was the last time GOD HIMSELF told you what he/she/it wants?
A real god would not need to set up an artificial hierarchy inherent in
what we regard as ant to get out of a relationship
with god without having to cowtow to the trappings of religions?
Originally posted by Conrau KI think you miss the point. If all that is the composition of our consciousness is the random assortment of chemicals eventually producing the correct chain to produce this, then it shouldn't be too terribly insurmountable of a challenge to reproduce it in a controlled enviroment.
Why does not consciousness have to be created?
We know the brain is composed of chemicals. We know these chemicals influence behaviour (as well as the environment). We accept that behaviour is the manifestation of the mind. Hence, the mind=brain and chemicals+environment=mind. There is not free will in this.