Free will does not exist!

Originally posted by goodshim
everyone is an individual, as they have there own mind to think and do what they want! people are responsible for there own actions and you can t blame that on free will!. god is a load of poop, just a story that has carried on with time and people are scared into not believeing!

Huh???????
How can people be responsible for their actions if they did not have free will? If you didn't choose to do something, how can you be responsible for that something?

As for having the ability to think and do what you want, thats entirely open to discussion.

But, one man's modus ponens is another man's modus tollens.

If one man's modus ponens is another man's modus tollens, is one man's modus tollens thus another man's modus ponens?

Originally posted by Conrau K
Given that our consciousness is the product of chemicals and their interactions and influences from the environment, and that our thoughts are dictated by predispositions (as the result of inheritance). Then it is impossible that we can truly make a free decision. Hence, we have no free will.
This also has implications for law. Is a person truly accountab ...[text shortened]... ably all other theists) have been lied to in some way as a consequence.

Anyone disagree?

Free will was aconception highlighted by the Christians, before then we were felt to be creatures of fate, as in Greek tragedy (see Oedipus Rex, penned by Sophocles).
So are we creatures of fate or is there free will or do we have neither and we are but beings incorparated within a nihilistic existence? that my friends is the question, that is the bone of contention that we must chew!

Originally posted by Vladamir no1
Free will was aconception highlighted by the Christians, before then we were felt to be creatures of fate, as in Greek tragedy (see Oedipus Rex, penned by Sophocles).
So are we creatures of fate or is there free will or do we have neither and we are but beings incorparated within a nihilistic existence? that my friends is the question, that is the bone of contention that we must chew!

Don't confuse determinism with determinacy. Althought our actions are determined, the future is indeterminate (hence, there cannot be fate).

As for a nihilistic existence, I'm not sure it matters. To me, religion is not relevant to society. Morals are not founded on the instructions of a God, but on the most stable configuration of society and actions. If it helps build or help society its good. Such an understanding of morals is supported by evolution (see "the selfish gene" by Richard Dawkins) and is sort of covered by Plato in "the Republican". God and religion were just concepts that once helped contribute to stability within society.

Originally posted by Conrau K
Don't confuse determinism with determinacy. Althought our actions are determined, the future is indeterminate (hence, there cannot be fate).

As for a nihilistic existence, I'm not sure it matters. To me, religion is not relevant to society. Morals are not founded on the instructions of a God, but on the most stable configuration of society and actions. d and religion were just concepts that once helped contribute to stability within society.

But what are our actions determined by? We are cutural indocrinated from the day we escape the womb (and whilst inside the womb if you take into consideration our culturally determined diet, via the umbilical cord)....We have no 'free will' but are tabla rasa's imprinted with culture, psychological hangups and a socila structure, and these determine our every move....And our lifes are fairly pre-detrmined if we take into account our narratives (ie middle class, working class narratives, as but one example)........Free will and fate are but illussions........there is nothing but life !

Originally posted by Vladamir no1
But what are our actions determined by? We are cutural indocrinated from the day we escape the womb (and whilst inside the womb if you take into consideration our culturally determined diet, via the umbilical cord)....We have no 'free will' but are tabla rasa's imprinted with culture, psychological hangups and a socila structure, and these determine ou ...[text shortened]... one example)........Free will and fate are but illussions........there is nothing but life !

I think as Dosteovsky (hope the spelling is right) said, "we are governed by the laws of nature, we just dont know what those laws are."

If every action presupposes a cause, then our actions are determined. If every action does not presuppose a cause, then all actions are random.