Spirituality
07 Jul 13
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08 Jul 13
2 edits
Originally posted by menace71This is apparently God coming to Abraham with two angels. And they had lunch.
I think as we read further we see that this is an appearance of God to Abraham as we see Abraham having a discussion with God
Manny
Now I had a Jewish person fight hard that this was not God. But I don't see any way around it -
"And Jehovah appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre as he was sitting at the entrance of his tent in the heat of the day.
And he lifted up his eyes and looked, and there were three men standing opposite him. And when he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent to meet them. And he bowned down to the earth."
Abraham was looking down. The seeing the appearance of Jehovah has to be in conjunction with him lifting up his eyes and seeing the three men.
Otherwise you have some strange interpretation that Jehovah appeared to him as he was looking down somewhere between his knees towards the ground. That makes no sense.
So when Abraham lifted up his eyes to see the three men, it was THEN that "Jehovah appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre as he was sitting at the entrance of his tent ..."
God transcends time. God transcends time but also can enter into time too. Before He was born in the womb of the virgin Mary, God appeared a few times as a man in the Old Testament.
Genesis 18 has to be one of those instances.
Latter we see the two angels [men] leave Abraham and the third visitor remains to converse with Abraham. It says Abraham was left there to talk with God -
"And the men turned from there and went toward Sodom, while Abraham remained standing before Jehovah." (verse 22)
Is there any way around understanding that one of those three men was Jehovah God ? I don't think so.
08 Jul 13
Originally posted by sonshipNo human has ever seen God. God told Moses: “You are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and yet live.” (Exodus 33:20)
This is apparently God coming to Abraham with two angels. And they had lunch.
Now I had a Jewish person fight hard that this was not God. But I don't see any way around it -
[b]"And Jehovah appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre as he was sitting at the entrance of his tent in the heat of the day.
And he lifted up his eyes and looked, and there we ...[text shortened]... ay around understanding that one of those three men was Jehovah God ? I don't think so.
Another scripture for choose to ignor?
08 Jul 13
Originally posted by galveston75What about Abraham and Jacob then? Did they not see God's face, but only His backside as was shown to Moses? Are do you think someone is a liar here? And who was this Angel (messenger from God) that Jacob saw and called God almighty? I am still waitng for your answer on that one too.
No human has ever seen God. God told Moses: “You are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and yet live.” (Exodus 33:20)
Another scripture for choose to ignor?
The Instructor
08 Jul 13
Originally posted by galveston75Galveston read this carefully.......it says plainly that Abraham was talking with God and we see this in the later part of 18 very clearly......How else our we to understand this then?
No human has ever seen God. God told Moses: “You are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and yet live.” (Exodus 33:20)
Another scripture for choose to ignor?
Manny
PS: they also ate what Abraham presented which was the other part of my question
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08 Jul 13
3 edits
Originally posted by galveston75We have been through the problem of seeing God and living. I cannot endure the vanity of arguing with the SAME person year after year.
No human has ever seen God. God told Moses: “You are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and yet live.” (Exodus 33:20)
Another scripture for choose to ignor?
I told you that if GOD MAKES REDEMPTIVE PROVISION for ANY sinner, that sinner can be SAVED from the consequences of estrangement from God.
I do NOT ignore the Exodus verse. I take it into account along with the other verses where MEN SAW GOD and lived. Not only did they live but they were blessed.
God can SAVE the separated unholy sinner. And He did so. I showed you that in the case of Isaiah 6, in the case of Genesis 48, and in the case of Manoah. We have to now add the case of Abraham in Genesis 18.
You are trying to tie God's hands. You are trying to force that God cannot provide redemptive protection against His awesome holiness and glory to the atoned for sinner.
" And Manoah said to his wife, We will surely die, for we have seen God.
But his wife said to him, If Jehovah had been pleased to kill us, He would not have taken a burnt offering and a meal offering from our hand, nor would He have shown us all these things or let us hear a thing like this at this time." (Judges 13:22,23)
In other words - "we saw God and He didn't kill us but accepted us and blessed us."
The burnt offering was a type of the atoning Christ.
The meal offering was a type of the atoning Christ.
From the transcendent viewpoint from eternity, Christ is the means by which the estranged sinner be spared death. Christ is the One by which man can not only see God but be indwelt with by God, made united with God, and become a son of God.
The same principle occurs with all others who saw God in the Old Testament. Christ, before His incarnation, in type and in pre-figure, was their safety and even their blessing.
Originally posted by menace71Does it specify what he was eating?
Galveston read this carefully.......it says plainly that Abraham was talking with God and we see this in the later part of 18 very clearly......How else our we to understand this then?
Manny
PS: they also ate what Abraham presented which was the other part of my question
My money is on magic mushrooms or some similar hallucinogen.
--- Penguin.
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08 Jul 13
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71You know that Abraham had been justified already because of His belief in God.
Galveston read this carefully.......it says plainly that Abraham was talking with God and we see this in the later part of 18 very clearly......How else our we to understand this then?
Manny
PS: they also ate what Abraham presented which was the other part of my question
"And he [Abraham] believed Jehovah, and He accounted it to him as righteousness" (Genesis 15:6)
So in chapter 18 he could see God and not die. In fact 18 shows God's heart's desire is just the opposite. He takes no delight in the death of sinners. Rather God takes delight in showing up before Abraham as a intimate friend for an afternoon's lunch.
God does not delight to kill sinners. He has to maintain His holy separation of course. But He wants to have fellowship and friendship with man.
Somehow Abraham recognized that it was God who came for a human like visitation that day. I do not know how. But it must testify to how deeply Abraham had come to know God intimately.
08 Jul 13
Originally posted by galveston75Jesus said, when you have seen me you have seen the Father.
No human has ever seen God. God told Moses: “You are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and yet live.” (Exodus 33:20)
Another scripture for choose to ignor?
Come on Galvo, deal them faster!
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10 Jul 13
2 edits
Galveston can explain to us Acts 7:2 - Stephen talking about the Old Testament:
"And he said, Men, brothers and fathers, listen. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham while he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Haran." (Acts 7:2).
Why then did Abraham continue to live after having seen God ?
11 Jul 13
Originally posted by sonshipThat is simple. The God of glory is the Son.
Galveston can explain to us [b]Acts 7:2 - Stephen talking about the Old Testament:
"And he said, Men, brothers and fathers, listen. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham while he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Haran." (Acts 7:2).
Why then did Abraham continue to live after having seen God ?[/b]
HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Glory be to God! Holy! Holy! Holy!
The Instructor