1. Standard membersonship
    the corrected one.
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    8655
    13 Jul '14 12:321 edit
    This thread will be a comparison of the mystery of God sending God from Zechariah 2:8-11 in the Old Testament and God sending God in John 14 in the New Testament.


    Zechariah 2:8-11

    "For thus says Jehovah of hosts, After the glory He has sent Me against the nations who plunder you; for he who touches you touches the pupil of His eye. (v.8)

    For I am waving My hand over them, and they will be plunder for those who served them; and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me. (v.9)

    Give a ringing shout and rejoice, O daughter of Zion, for now I am coming, and I will dwell in your midst, declares Jehovah. (v.10)

    And many nations will join themselves to Jehovah in that day and will become My people; and I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me to you." (v.11)
  2. Standard membersonship
    the corrected one.
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    8655
    13 Jul '14 12:331 edit
    In verse 8 the speaker is Jehovah of hosts - " ... thus says Jehovah of hosts ...". But who is the one sent to deal with the plundering nations in this sentence - "He has sent Me against the nations who plunder you" ? He is the one waving His hand and declaring that Jehovah of hosts has sent Him -

    "For thus says Jehovah of hosts ... For I am waving My hand over them; and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me." Jehovah of hosts is both the speaker and the one who will dwell in the midst of His people -

    " ... for now I am coming, and I will dwell in your midst, declares Jehovah." (v.10)

    Many nations will join themselves to Jehovah God for He says they will be His people - "And many nations will join themselves to Jehovah in that day and will become My people; and I will dwell in your midst ..."

    When they join themselves to Jehovah who will come to dwell in the midst of His people, it shall be known that Jehovah of hosts has sent this One -

    "And many nations will join themselves to Jehovah in that day and will become My people; and I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me unto you."

    This mysterious passage reveals that Jehovah of hosts is both the Sender and the One Sent. This is a widow into the triune nature of God. And we can compare it to the New Testament utterance that the Son and the Father will come to dwell in the lover of Jesus:

    "Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)
  3. Standard membersonship
    the corrected one.
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    8655
    13 Jul '14 12:37
    Notice again verse 8: "For thus says Jehovah of hosts, After the glory He has sent Me against the nations who plunder you; for he who touches you touches the pupil of His eye." (Zech. 2:8)

    Both "He" and "Me" refer to Jehovah of hosts. Jehovah of hosts is both the Sender (verses 9,11) and the sent One. This like John's Gospel, is a revelation of the Triune God.

    God dispatching God is here.
    God dispensing God is here.

    Jehovah is Triune as implied in Exodus 3:15 - the God Who will be Who He will be, the self existing "I AM THAT I AM" is threefold revealed - "the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob ...".

    In Zech. 2:8-11 One of the three in the Godhead, Who is refered to as "He", sent another of the three, Who is refered to as "Me".

    The Sender is surely the Father, and the sent One is the Son. Both the Father and the Son are Jehovah.

    " ... the works which the Father has given Me to finish ... testify concerning Me that the Father has sent Me." (John 5:36b)

    "As the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, ..." (John 6:57a)

    "But even if I do judge, My judgment is true, for I am not alone, but I and the Father who sent Me." (John 8:16)

    In Zechariah after the glory the Triune God decided that the Father would send the Son against the nations who plundered Israel. Both Father and Son are Jehovah.
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
    Joined
    24 Jan '11
    Moves
    12695
    13 Jul '14 19:49
    Originally posted by sonship
    Notice again verse 8: [b]"For thus says Jehovah of hosts, After the glory He has sent Me against the nations who plunder you; for he who touches you touches the pupil of His eye." (Zech. 2:8)

    Both "He" and "Me" refer to Jehovah of hosts. Jehovah of hosts is both the Sender (verses 9,11) and the sent One. This like John's Gospel, is a revelation of th ...[text shortened]... er would send the Son against the nations who plundered Israel. Both Father and Son are Jehovah.[/b]
    I want to make it clear that God's NAME is NOT JEHOVAH.

    http://www.logosapostolic.org/bible_study/RP506JehovahYahweh.htm

    HalleluYAH !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
  5. SubscriberSuzianne
    Misfit Queen
    Isle of Misfit Toys
    Joined
    08 Aug '03
    Moves
    35531
    13 Jul '14 22:12
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I want to make it clear that God's NAME is NOT JEHOVAH.

    http://www.logosapostolic.org/bible_study/RP506JehovahYahweh.htm

    HalleluYAH !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
    Different flavors of the same peppermint stick, Ron.

    YHWH, the tetragrammaton, was used because the Jews thought the name of God too sacred to be uttered aloud. This has been rendered many ways over the years: YHWH, YHVH, JHWH, JHVH, IHWH, IHVH.

    You getting stuck on this and claiming, "IT'S NOT JEHOVAH, IT'S YAHWEH!" is just you focusing on more of the same minutiae I accused you of focusing on just the other day. Stop focusing on minutiae and start focusing on the Lord our God.

    It's all just different flavors of the same peppermint stick. Get over it.
  6. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
    Joined
    24 Jan '11
    Moves
    12695
    13 Jul '14 23:30
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Different flavors of the same peppermint stick, Ron.

    YHWH, the tetragrammaton, was used because the Jews thought the name of God too sacred to be uttered aloud. This has been rendered many ways over the years: YHWH, YHVH, JHWH, JHVH, IHWH, IHVH.

    You getting stuck on this and claiming, "IT'S NOT JEHOVAH, IT'S YAHWEH!" is just you focusing on more of t ...[text shortened]... the Lord our God.

    It's all just different flavors of the same peppermint stick. Get over it.
    Why do you keep jumping on me for trying to present some truth, minutiae or not? How about concentrating on those that are presenting error.
  7. SubscriberSuzianne
    Misfit Queen
    Isle of Misfit Toys
    Joined
    08 Aug '03
    Moves
    35531
    13 Jul '14 23:39
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Why do you keep jumping on me for trying to present some truth, minutiae or not? How about concentrating on those that are presenting error.
    Because you are arguing with other theists over stuff that just doesn't matter. You're just injecting crap into a valid thread about something totally different. You're just stifling other theists. You do realize that this thread is about jaywill talking about the triune God, yes? Are you just trying to shout him down? Why? I thought you agreed with the concept of the trinity.

    Isn't it maybe better to spend your time arguing about God with those who claim He doesn't exist? Maybe shine some truth on those that truly need it?
  8. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
    Joined
    24 Jan '11
    Moves
    12695
    13 Jul '14 23:44
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Because you are arguing with other theists over stuff that just doesn't matter. You're just injecting crap into a valid thread about something totally different. You're just stifling other theists. You do realize that this thread is about jaywill talking about the triune God, yes? Are you just trying to shout him down? Why? I thought you agreed with t ...[text shortened]... God with those who claim He doesn't exist? Maybe shine some truth on those that truly need it?
    I had the feeling that it might be important to someone. Apparently you are not that one. 😏
  9. Standard membersonship
    the corrected one.
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    8655
    14 Jul '14 11:10
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Because you are arguing with other theists over stuff that just doesn't matter. You're just injecting crap into a valid thread about something totally different. You're just stifling other theists. You do realize that this thread is about jaywill talking about the triune God, yes? Are you just trying to shout him down? Why? I thought you agreed with t ...[text shortened]... God with those who claim He doesn't exist? Maybe shine some truth on those that truly need it?
    Thank you for realizing the theme of the thread from distractions.

    This thread was to help discribe the mysterious nature of God in both the OT and the NT.

    In the OT we definitely see on occasion the interchangeable titles of Jehovah and the Angel of Jehovah. Some versions would say "the Lord" and "the angel of the Lord". That is not the point of this thread.

    The point is a comparison to saying God comes to man in the Son by the Holy Spirit is reminiscent of God sending God in Zechariah.
  10. Standard membersonship
    the corrected one.
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    8655
    14 Jul '14 11:24
    Some get a little confused with the mention of more than one messenger in Zechariah 2. Please read the chapter very carefully.

    Let us refer to angel A and angel B.

    "Then at this point the angel who spoke with me went forth ..." [angel A] " ... and another angel came forth to meet him." [angel B].

    Verse 4 - "And he said to him, Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalem will lie as an open region .... etc."

    I take this as probably angel A, who is busy going for the measuring of Jerusalem, telling angel B who has come forward to accompany him, to run with the word of God to Zechariah. (Possibly it could be the other way around).

    What effect does this have on these words ?

    " ... for now I am coming, and I will dwell in your midst, declares Jehovah... and I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me to you." (v.10b,11b)

    Which do you believe?

    1.) Jehovah (or JHWH) will dwell in the midst of His people, is told to the prophet twice by God?

    OR

    2.) Jehovah (or JHWH) will dwell in the midst of His people, is told ONCE on behalf of God and ANOTHER TIME, on behalf of angel B?

    If #2 is your choice then you believe [b[" ... and I will dwell in your midst, declares Jehovah" [/b] stands of God's dwelling in the midst in v10. But " and I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me to you." stands for angel B dwelling in the midst.

    I do not believe scenary #2. For the significance of GOD dwelling in the midst is vital and requires REPETITION. And in the repeating God is the Sender and the sent One saying TWICE that He comes to dwell in the midst -

    The whereabouts of angel B dwelling is not that important. What is important is the dwelling of the speaking God - " I am coming, and I will dwell in your midst, DECLARES JEHOVAH " (v.10)

    Then reinforced and repeated -

    " ... and I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me to you." (v.11)

    The Dweller in the midst = God. The One sending the Dweller in the midst = God.

    It is no wonder that we can see God comng as the Divine "We" of the Father and the Son in John 14:23. And furthermore the chapter speaks of the coming of the Holy Spirit, the "another Comforter" Who is the Spirit of reality.

    It has to be that the Father and the Son are imparted into believing men by means of the dispensed Holy Spirit. He brings the Triune God into man.

    What the Trinity is can never be separated from the operation of the Trinity to dispense and impart God into man.
  11. Standard membersonship
    the corrected one.
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    8655
    28 Jul '14 17:292 edits
    So if Jehovah of hosts can send Jehovah of hosts (Zech. 2:8-11) in the OT the Father and the Son as the divine We can be sent to make an abode with the New Testament believers. (John 14:23)

    In fact such a coming of the divine "We" is exactly the coming of the Spirit of reality, the Another Comforter in John 14:16.

    And the coming of the Divine "We" of the Father and the Son AS "Another Comforter" is also the event of Christ living in the Christians.

    "Test yourselves whether you are in the faith; prove yourselves. Or do you not realize about yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are disapproved." (2 Cor. 13:5)

    They Three of the triune God cannot be separated.
  12. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
    Joined
    24 Jan '11
    Moves
    12695
    29 Jul '14 06:06
    Originally posted by sonship
    Some get a little confused with the mention of more than one messenger in Zechariah 2. Please read the chapter very carefully.

    Let us refer to angel A and angel B.

    [b]"Then at this point the angel who spoke with me went forth ..."
    [angel A] " ... and another angel came forth to meet him." [angel B].

    Verse 4 - "And he said to him, R ...[text shortened]... is can never be separated from the operation of the Trinity to dispense and impart God into man.
    The Missing J

    http://www.yaim.org/web/literature/sacred-names/themissingj.html
  13. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
    Joined
    28 Dec '04
    Moves
    52619
    29 Jul '14 14:471 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I had the feeling that it might be important to someone. Apparently you are not that one. 😏
    You clearly are saying that about the names because you want to cast doubt on Jehovah Witness religion. If there were no JV's you could care less what your god is called.

    That's the real bottom line.
  14. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
    Joined
    24 Jan '11
    Moves
    12695
    29 Jul '14 15:56
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    You clearly are saying that about the names because you want to cast doubt on Jehovah Witness religion. If there were no JV's you could care less what your god is called.

    That's the real bottom line.
    Not so.
  15. Standard membermenace71
    Can't win a game of
    38N Lat X 121W Lon
    Joined
    03 Apr '03
    Moves
    140206
    30 Jul '14 07:29
    Matthew 3

    13 Then Jesus *arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him. 14 But John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?” 15 But Jesus answering said to him, “Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he *permitted Him. 16 After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, 17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”

    If this is not a clear indication of the One God's triune Nature then I don't know what is


    Manny

    PS R.J. God is so manifold in Majesty that He has many names
Back to Top