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    08 Aug '17 12:481 edit
    Romans 9

    10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

    14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

    19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?


    Paul seems to think that at least some of us do not have a choice about being evil. Some are predestined to be evil at God's choosing.
  2. Standard memberRBHILL
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    08 Aug '17 16:40
    Originally posted by @eladar
    Romans 9

    10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is wri ...[text shortened]... of us do not have a choice about being evil. Some are predestined to be evil at God's choosing.
    So
  3. Joined
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    08 Aug '17 16:53
    Originally posted by @rbhill
    So
    So God chooses who gets saved and who gets left out.
  4. Standard memberRBHILL
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    08 Aug '17 17:531 edit
    Originally posted by @eladar
    So God chooses who gets saved and who gets left out.
    Praise God He saves some. He didn't have to save anybody at all in the first place.
  5. Standard memberchaney3
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    08 Aug '17 18:00
    Originally posted by @rbhill
    Praise God He saves some. He didn't have to save anybody at all in the first place.
    Humans didn't ask to be born with a 'sinful nature' that God would detest, in advance, then send us to hell because of it.
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    08 Aug '17 18:111 edit
    Originally posted by @eladar
    Paul seems to think that at least some of us do not have a choice about being evil. Some are predestined to be evil at God's choosing...
    This certainly would explain your posting.
  7. Joined
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    08 Aug '17 18:35
    Originally posted by @eladar
    Romans 9

    10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is wri ...[text shortened]... of us do not have a choice about being evil. Some are predestined to be evil at God's choosing.
    The question becomes, is it God choosing a persons fate or simply knowing in advance what they are made of and attaching an appropriate fate along with it?
  8. Standard memberchaney3
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    08 Aug '17 19:02
    Originally posted by @whodey
    The question becomes, is it God choosing a persons fate or simply knowing in advance what they are made of and attaching an appropriate fate along with it?
    So then, God creates a person, with a sinful nature and knows in advance this person will sin, and not believe in Jesus....all so that this person can go to hell? Why bother?

    Absurd.
  9. Standard memberchaney3
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    08 Aug '17 21:33
    Originally posted by @chaney3
    So then, God creates a person, with a sinful nature and knows in advance this person will sin, and not believe in Jesus....all so that this person can go to hell? Why bother?

    Absurd.
    It seems that humans are created with a pre-existing sinful nature, as opposed to a 'clean slate', with a decision to sin or not.

    We are doomed from birth, with no choice.
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    08 Aug '17 21:53
    Originally posted by @whodey
    The question becomes, is it God choosing a persons fate or simply knowing in advance what they are made of and attaching an appropriate fate along with it?
    Paul says God's choice not simply knowing.
  11. Standard memberchaney3
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    08 Aug '17 21:58
    Originally posted by @eladar
    Paul says God's choice not simply knowing.
    Absurd.

    Then God either does NOT know the future, or He is creating humans that are going directly to hell.

    Why bother? It seems evil actually.
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