Good Friday's gone and passed...

Originally posted by josephw
I find it absurd, and irrational, that you would give a definition of a God you don't believe exists. 😕

So, can you give me a brief and concise explination as to what is the cause of so much death and distruction we see in this world?

I got the feeling this is going to open a can of worms!

I find it absurd, and irrational, that you would give a definition of a God you don't believe exists. 😕

Often, the best way to destroy things is from within.


So, can you give me a brief and concise explination as to what is the cause of so much death and distruction we see in this world?

No. There are many, many causes for why things go wrong. Probably the chief amongst them is that we live in a world with finite resources. The struggle for survival always produces winners and losers.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
God is not responsible for all the natural disasters in the world, Satan is! And I know the next accusation! "Why did God kill all those innocents in the flood, or the Amelikites, etc." That would be like blaming the doctor for killing innocent cancer cells. They have rights too, right?

SO why doesn't a 4-O God (omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent) God stop Satan? Surely, God, being omnibenevolent would not be able to see people being corrupted and do nothing. And being omnipotent, he could stop it from ever happening.

Originally posted by whodey
Well the gift is salvation because we are all dying......so if you refuse the gift you will die without the gift of salvation.

Well, if that's all - I'll simply die - I am fine with that. But what's up with all the talk about hell, punishment and torment then?

Originally posted by bbarr
Fine, then let me die without the gift of salvation, but don't punish me after I'm dead for refusing the gift. I don't expect to receive any rewards from your god, because I don't believe in him. And even if I thought your god existed, I certainly wouldn't worship him.

Yes, yes, I know that you and your ilk think that God is the heart of goodness and l rnally for failing to love him back, that God is both jealous and morally perfect, etc.).

And so your free will remains intact. I realize that you have issues with understanding God's goodness and life. After all, what is so hideous about goodness, and life, and free will? It all sounds so wonderfull, does'nt it? This is the God that I serve. However, as much as it pains me there is nothing to be done about the alternative to rejecting such goodness, and life and free will. I think I understand where you are coming from and how you feel, after all, I was there once myself. The emotion is one in which you feel as though your free will is being stripped from you in that you feel forced into serving him or else. However, I see no way around this dilemma in that we must have the will to reject him or serve him if our free will is to remain intact. I suppose if he proved himself to you that you really would feel coersed into serving him or else. Perhaps this is one of the reasons he does not choose to "prove" himself to nonbelievers. If you really do not love his ways and his laws then all one need to do is say that he does not exist instead of trying to serve him without really desiring to serve him. What saddens me the most, however, is that I am not sure people really ever get to know who he is. The expression, "The God you reject is not the same God I serve" comes to mind. How can you ever love someone without getting to know them and how many people do we reject in our lives who we misunderstood?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
SO why doesn't a 4-O God (omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent) God stop Satan? Surely, God, being omnibenevolent would not be able to see people being corrupted and do nothing. And being omnipotent, he could stop it from ever happening.

He has. It's through salvation. You put too much stock on "this life". We will all die sooner or later. I do not believe God's original plan was to live 70 or so years and die. Adam messed it up for all. The blame more accurately goes to Satan, and yes, God knew ahead of time what would happen. I don't know why He chose the way He did, I don't have His mind. But I do know that He is much smarter than any of us, including satan.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
He has. It's through salvation. You put too much stock on "this life". We will all die sooner or later. I do not believe God's original plan was to live 70 or so years and die. Adam messed it up for all. The blame more accurately goes to Satan, and yes, God knew ahead of time what would happen. I don't know why He chose the way He did, I don't have His mind. But I do know that He is much smarter than any of us, including satan.

Ah, so everyone goes to heaven then?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Ah, so everyone goes to heaven then?

No...this is just my opinion of your other questions.🙂

Originally posted by checkbaiter
No...this is just my opinion of your other questions.🙂

So, not everyone is redeemed then? Not everyone gets forgiveness. The devil gets some.

Pray tell, how could an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God allow that?

Originally posted by whodey
And so your free will remains intact. I realize that you have issues with understanding God's goodness and life. After all, what is so hideous about goodness, and life, and free will? It all sounds so wonderfull, does'nt it? This is the God that I serve. However, as much as it pains me there is nothing to be done about the alternative to rejecting such ...[text shortened]... t getting to know them and how many people do we reject in our lives who we misunderstood?

Of course there is nothing hideous about actual goodness, or life, or freedom. What is hideous is how these notions get perverted in the context of your faith. Our lives become God's property, to do with what he will. Goodness become mere rule of force, where the mightiest person simply decrees with is right and wrong. Freedom becomes the freedom to serve, and the punishment for choosing to live actually free is eternal damnation. This is why your faith has always struck me as fundamentally horrific.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
So, not everyone is redeemed then? Not everyone gets forgiveness. The devil gets some.

Pray tell, how could an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God allow that?

The devil? He will be destroyed. All people will be forgiven if only they receive God's gift through Christ. Those that never heard?, you might ask? Well IMO God is just and kind, and will deal with them accordingly.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
The devil? He will be destroyed. All people will be forgiven if only they receive God's gift through Christ. Those that never heard?, you might ask? Well IMO God is just and kind, and will deal with them accordingly.

I'm not worried about those which never heard. What about those that he created, knowing in advance they'd reject him?What will he do with those people after he's destroyed the devil? Why does he feel the need to torture people he created knowing they'd go to hell, anyway?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
I'm not worried about those which never heard. What about those that he created, knowing in advance they'd reject him?What will he do with those people after he's destroyed the devil? Why does he feel the need to torture people he created knowing they'd go to hell, anyway?

First of all, I do not believe in eternal torture. I do not believe the bible teaches this. It goes against God's nature. I think the bible teaches that after being cast in the lake of fire, those cast in, will burn up and turn to ashes. They will be no more. They will cease to exist. That is what rejecting God means. He does not make a special "paradise" for those who reject Him. They want no part of Him, so be it. The purpose of life is to love, honor and worship God for who He is.

I Jn 5:12
12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
(NKJ)

How can someone spend eterity in "hell", if he does not have life?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
First of all, I do not believe in eternal torture. I do not believe the bible teaches this. It goes against God's nature. I think the bible teaches that after being cast in the lake of fire, those cast in, will burn up and turn to ashes. They will be no more. They will cease to exist. That is what rejecting God means. He does not make a special "paradise ...[text shortened]... not have life.
(NKJ)

How can someone spend eterity in "hell", if he does not have life?

That's okay then. Complete destruction of my soul is preferable to an eternity of ass kissing.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
That's okay then. Complete destruction of my soul is preferable to an eternity of ass kissing.

I wish you well....Peace.🙂

Originally posted by checkbaiter
First of all, I do not believe in eternal torture. I do not believe the bible teaches this. It goes against God's nature. I think the bible teaches that after being cast in the lake of fire, those cast in, will burn up and turn to ashes. They will be no more. They will cease to exist. That is what rejecting God means. He does not make a special "paradise ...[text shortened]... not have life.
(NKJ)

How can someone spend eterity in "hell", if he does not have life?

Well as long as it's merely murder and not torture...