Good men?

@secondson said
One chooses to believe something based on information.

Not in the realm of supernatural things. I don't think so.

@secondson said
The alternative is that we are automatons subject only to external stimuli, void of internal self determination and will.

I don't think this is the only "alternative".

Remember I am talking about things like superstition and faith in religious ideas that are rooted in supernatural notions the validity of which cannot be proven to non-believers.

The "the alternative is that we are automatons" argument doesn't work on me.

@secondson said
When one knows something is true, i.e. with sure and infallible evidence, one doesn't lose faith. They simply never had faith to begin with, because, contrary to popular understanding, faith isn't blind.

Ah yes, this old chestnut. Thanks.

@secondson said
You chose, but didn't choose? You "lost" faith? I'm not familiar with that concept as I find it nowhere in the Bible. Biblically speaking, if I'm not mistaken, one either has faith or they don't.

Some people lose it. It would seem you've never talked to any of them. And it would seem talking to me is not going make you any wiser about the loss of faith. You'll probably just trot out the same dogmatic ideas/'arguments'/assertions like an automaton next time it all comes up.

@secondson said
The substance of faith belongs to the spiritual, i.e. those that have been "born again", or if you will regenerated, that is brought back to life spiritually so that they are equipped to receive the Spirit of Truth.

Yes, I am aware of the religious doctrines you subscribe to. I used to be a Christian after all. Thank you for reiterating them.

@fmf said
You believe opposing the death penalty is an example of "tolerating evil"?

I explained that in the OP.

@fmf said
I have no objection to your belief in God although I would be sceptical if you claimed that your belief in God made you behave in a good way.

James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

I would agree.

@fmf said
Speak for yourself. If you say you are a moral lemming, so be it.

I merely recognize the ability I have to rationalize goodness based upon my own wants. We have all done it, at least, maybe not you perhaps.

@whodey said
I explained that in the OP.

So you think, to a degree, that opponents of capital punishment, including probably hundreds of millions of believers in Jesus, are "evil" on this matter of government policy?

@whodey said
I merely recognize the ability I have to rationalize goodness based upon my own wants. We have all done it, at least, maybe not you perhaps.

I will take you at your word that you are a "moral lemming".

@fmf said
I will take you at your word that you are a "moral lemming".

You know, you don't have to be such a prick.

You do realize that, right?

@whodey said
You know, you don't have to be such a prick.

You do realize that, right?

I am engaging what you say and I am not calling you names. You said, "We are moral lemmings". I say you should just speak for yourself.

@whodey said
What I find is that as society becomes increasingly secular, it becomes increasingly tolerant of evil. Most secular atheists, for example, oppose the death penalty.

"Secular atheists" aside, what do you make of Christians who oppose the death penalty?

@whodey said
I was reading a book by Dennis Prager, "Genesis" in which he asserts why having the world view that men are inherently good is dangerous.

These are the reasons why he asserts it is dangerous

1. Children are not taught to be good. Parents and teachers who believe people are basically good do not feel the need to teach children how to be good. Why teach what comes natur ...[text shortened]... ke good people?" But societies that believe people are basically good will never ask that question.

There has to be a standard for anything to be defined, or it’s simply whatever seems right in our own eyes.