1. Jo'Burg South Africa
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    03 Jan '12 18:46
    Better late than never 😉

    1 + 1 = 2
    FSM = No such thing and to brake the ice even further, no santa or tooth fairy either. This was told to all of us in pre-school. Eish sorry man. Classes will continue shortly...
  2. Joined
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    04 Jan '12 02:37
    Originally posted by Nicksten
    Better late than never 😉

    1 + 1 = 2
    FSM = No such thing and to brake the ice even further, no santa or tooth fairy either. This was told to all of us in pre-school. Eish sorry man. Classes will continue shortly...
    As this was addressed to me it falls to me to say....

    Um what????
  3. Joined
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    04 Jan '12 03:01
    curiouser and curiouser. good-bye, feet!
  4. Joined
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    04 Jan '12 03:16
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    curiouser and curiouser. good-bye, feet!
    Alice in wonderland and through the looking glass were two of my favourite stories as a kid.
    I had both on cassette tape read by Alan Bennett. :-)
  5. Joined
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    04 Jan '12 03:30
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Alice in wonderland and through the looking glass were two of my favourite stories as a kid.
    I had both on cassette tape read by Alan Bennett. :-)
    they truly are wonderful stories. never had the luxury of someone reading them to me though.
  6. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
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    04 Jan '12 04:24
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Alice in wonderland and through the looking glass were two of my favourite stories as a kid.
    I had both on cassette tape read by Alan Bennett. :-)
    What is the moral of the stories?
  7. Joined
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    04 Jan '12 12:321 edit
    Originally posted by Nicksten
    Better late than never 😉

    1 + 1 = 2
    FSM = No such thing and to brake the ice even further, no santa or tooth fairy either. This was told to all of us in pre-school. Eish sorry man. Classes will continue shortly...
    You are correct, there isn't such thing as the FSM (although you can't prove there isn't). Which is the whole point!
  8. Standard memberRJHinds
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    04 Jan '12 13:46
    Originally posted by lausey
    You are correct, there isn't such thing as the FSM (although you can't prove there isn't). Which is the whole point!
    What is the moral?
  9. Joined
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    04 Jan '12 13:56
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    What is the moral?
    That religion is idiotic?
    Not everything has to have a moral lesson at the end of it.

    It's mostly only kids stories that have a simple moral lesson to be learned by the end of the story.

    And yes, I include all the moral stories in the bible in this category, they are all far too simplistic
    (and occasionally wrong) to carry over into adult life.


    The FSM (Flying Spaghetti Monster) was created to parody the idiocy of blind faith and religion.
    And is often used or cited by the skeptic/atheist movements as a demonstration of what is wrong
    with the abandonment of logic and reason and evidence in favour of blind faith.
    Exactly the same arguments for believing in any god concept on faith alone apply equally to the FSM.
    Some people that wouldn't otherwise accept or realise the idiocy of believing on blind faith finally
    understand the idea when they realise that this is the case.

    So if there is any moral to the FSM it's about using skepticism and evidence and not believing things
    on blind faith. Or possibly that spicy meatballs are awesome... it's sometimes hard to tell.


    I am not sure that Alice in wonderland or through the looking glass have any simple moral lessons in them,
    that is not their point.
  10. Jo'Burg South Africa
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    05 Jan '12 13:55
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    That religion is idiotic?
    Not everything has to have a moral lesson at the end of it.

    It's mostly only kids stories that have a simple moral lesson to be learned by the end of the story.

    And yes, I include all the moral stories in the bible in this category, they are all far too simplistic
    (and occasionally wrong) to carry over into adult life. ...[text shortened]... through the looking glass have any simple moral lessons in them,
    that is not their point.
    Name some of the stories in the Bible you think are far too simplistic. I am sure you'll give your reasons too.

    Everything should have a moral lesson at the end of it, heck why read a book or watch a movie or even go through a hard time if there is nothing you're gonna learn from it?
  11. Joined
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    05 Jan '12 14:09
    Originally posted by Nicksten
    Name some of the stories in the [b]Bible you think are far too simplistic. I am sure you'll give your reasons too.

    Everything should have a moral lesson at the end of it, heck why read a book or watch a movie or even go through a hard time if there is nothing you're gonna learn from it?[/b]
    There is more to life than simple moral lessons.

    Tell me the moral lesson from Pirates of the Caribbean for example.

    The very fact that you think every story should have a simple moral lesson in it is childish.

    Life is complicated and messy, not everything is black and white, and not everything is about morality.
    There are actions you can take that are completely morally neutral, that have no moral dimension to
    them at all, good or bad.
    And other times where the right thing to do is far from clear as several moral values conflict.

    Stories should and do reflect that, in the bible they are built up from the ground as simple moral tales,
    the kind of thing you teach to children before they grow up and have to learn about the more complex moral
    landscape of adulthood.

    I am not going to name 'some of the stories' that are too simplistic... they ALL are.
    This isn't to say that they are all wrong, or bad in the described circumstances.
    But life, reality, is far more complex for the simple morality of religion.
    Particularly since some of the 'morals' in the bible are wrong.

    Mainly due to the bible being about laws, commandments from god, some of which happen to be moral, others aren't.
    Even just taking the ten commandments most of them have nothing to do with morality, they are instructions about
    how to worship god.
    Tell me the moral element behind not working on the Sabbath for example.... there isn't one, it's totally amoral.
  12. Standard memberRJHinds
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    05 Jan '12 17:542 edits
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    There is more to life than simple moral lessons.

    Tell me the moral lesson from Pirates of the Caribbean for example.

    The very fact that you think every story should have a simple moral lesson in it is childish.

    Life is complicated and messy, not everything is black and white, and not everything is about morality.
    There are actions you can take behind not working on the Sabbath for example.... there isn't one, it's totally amoral.
    I think the Sabbath commandment's moral is that it is good for us to follow
    the example of God, who worked six days and rested on the seventh day.
    That law may have a health component in it as well. It may be physically,
    mentally, and spiritually beneficial to us to take this scheduled time off
    from work to relax and think on other things that energizes us spiritually.
    Moses seems to think it was a way for the Israelites to remember that it
    was God that created the heavens and the earth and all living things in
    only six days and rested on the seventh.

    P.S. I think it may be good for all of us to remember this too, for then
    we would not be gullible enough to believe all this evolutionary crap.
  13. Wat?
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    05 Jan '12 17:57
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    There is more to life than simple moral lessons.

    Stories should and do reflect that, the kind of thing you teach to children before they grow up and have to learn about the more complex moral
    landscape of adulthood.

    I am not going to name 'some of the stories' that are too simplistic... they ALL are.
    This is a story, but defined as a poem, and has always been one of my favourites.

    It isn't simplistic, unless you have analysed the English used in it, and have a true understanding of what is read - but it is more of a story than a poem 😉.

    It also shows moral complexities, and certainly did to me as a child.

    YouTube ... or
    YouTube&feature=related

    Well worth a listen, is Thomas Gray's elegy put to music by Rick Wakeman, and read by Robert Powell - quite powerful.

    -m.
  14. Standard memberRJHinds
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    05 Jan '12 18:19
    Originally posted by mikelom
    This is a story, but defined as a poem, and has always been one of my favourites.

    It isn't simplistic, unless you have analysed the English used in it, and have a true understanding of what is read - but it is more of a story than a poem 😉.

    It also shows moral complexities, and certainly did to me as a child.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_evWOtv ...[text shortened]... Gray's elegy put to music by Rick Wakeman, and read by Robert Powell - quite powerful.

    -m.
    The second link has much better video pictures to go along with the poem.

    YouTube&feature=related
  15. Wat?
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    05 Jan '12 18:251 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The second link has much better video pictures to go along with the poem.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieE4ErFwKrc&feature=related
    So... did you enjoy it?

    Pictures quite often make difficult words easier to understand. I think many wouldn't understand the poem if they read it from a book without such pictures?

    -m.
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