1. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
    Uk
    Joined
    21 Jan '06
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    443
    05 Oct '08 19:373 edits
    The fact is that the idea of salvation via grace through faith can be used by leaders and church members alike to foster cheap grace and easy salvation where all that is required is a mouthed declaration of faith and bingo!...you are saved. It doesn't matter if you really believe it or not or do anything about it , you just have to say the words and click your heels and heaven is yours.

    Now , the fact that this does happen is often used by the anti - grace brigade as a get out jail free card whenever they need an argument against salvation via grace.

    Have they never heard of throwing the baby out with the bath water?

    The fact that grace can be abused says nothing about whether the concept of salvation via grace/faith is false or not. Anymore than the fact that wars can start over national frictions proves that having pride in one's country is wrong.

    Why do the anti-grace brigade always talk as if we don't realise that grace can be abused? Duh? We do know this you know.🙄

    There are of course exremes of abuse at the other end of the spectrum , but these extremes are neither here nor there. What men do with any idea doesn't always tell us whether that idea is false or not.
  2. Joined
    31 Oct '07
    Moves
    90090
    05 Oct '08 20:04
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    The fact is that the idea of salvation via grace through faith can be used by leaders and church members alike to foster cheap grace and easy salvation where all that is required is a mouthed declaration of faith and bingo!...you are saved. It doesn't matter if you really believe it or not or do anything about it , you just have to say the words and cl ...[text shortened]... there. What men do with any idea doesn't always tell us whether that idea is false or not.
    God knows our hearts. Why should this concern you?
  3. At the Revolution
    Joined
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    05 Oct '08 20:20
    Originally posted by ale1552
    God knows our hearts. Why should this concern you?
    Because God forbid we should question our dogmatic beliefs.
  4. Joined
    31 Oct '07
    Moves
    90090
    05 Oct '08 23:35
    Originally posted by scherzo
    Because God forbid we should question our dogmatic beliefs.
    It is not a matter of questioning our own beliefs, it amounts to being judgmental about other's beliefs. And when you said "God forbid" that we question our own beliefs....that is exactly what He does not do. He welcomes our questions and our doubts. What He does not tolerate is hatred and pride.
  5. Joined
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    9651
    06 Oct '08 00:58
    Originally posted by ale1552
    It is not a matter of questioning our own beliefs, it amounts to being judgmental about other's beliefs. And when you said "God forbid" that we question our own beliefs....that is exactly what He does not do. He welcomes our questions and our doubts. What He does not tolerate is hatred and pride.
    Excellent post.
  6. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined
    05 Mar '02
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    06 Oct '08 02:091 edit
    Originally posted by josephw
    Excellent post.
    Originally posted by josephw
    I'm not promising anything, but I'm taking a break from this place.

    I'll look in from time to time, and if I see something new maybe I'll dive in.

    Otherwise, God bless you all. May all you do bring good things to you.


    Not much of a break, huh. Unless thumbs up constitutes 'diving in.'

    Of course, I find it ironic that you would approve of a post that encourages
    examining your faith, since invariably when people raise questions about the
    contradictions in your own theological framework, your general approach
    is to dodge, insult and stick your fingers in your ears.

    Nemesio
  7. weedhopper
    Joined
    25 Jul '07
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    8064
    06 Oct '08 02:15
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    Originally posted by josephw
    [b]I'm not promising anything, but I'm taking a break from this place.

    I'll look in from time to time, and if I see something new maybe I'll dive in.

    Otherwise, God bless you all. May all you do bring good things to you.


    Not much of a break, huh. Unless thumbs up constitutes 'diving in.'

    Of course, I find ...[text shortened]... your general approach
    is to dodge, insult and stick your fingers in your ears.

    Nemesio[/b]
    Yeah...what Nem said.

    And another thing, jo, God does hate hatred and pride. Are you still too proud to apologise for those hateful remarks you directed at me? Or do you just hate me?
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