1. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    04 Jul '14 18:38
    Grace Gift

    A Grace Gift is one you can't work for and eventually earn; or merit by good or exemplary behavior; or deserve by reason or virtue of birthright, genetic predisposition, community associations, economic status, academic or professional or intellectual achievements, emotional or intelligence quotients. It's little wonder that even the mere mention in an online public forum of God's Grace Gift of His Uniquely Born Son's substitutionary spiritual death [separation from God the Father during the three hours at the Golgotha Crucifixion by Roman Centurions when all of the sins of the depraved human race were imputed to Christ to propitiate Divine Justice] so that depraved mankind could be reconciled unto Himself is met with all manner of meh ho hum dismissal, scorn and ridicule, incivility and hatred personified in personality attack. Why? Because God's Grace Gift [offered freely for the taking] is diametrically opposed to the human efforts and work products of all religions and all the isms of our times. In effect Grace is an insult to those who prefer to worship their own storied past, status and/or intellect.
  2. Cape Town
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    04 Jul '14 20:13
    Was there a question in there, or were you just stating the obvious for the fun of it?
  3. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    04 Jul '14 21:22
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Was there a question in there, or were you just stating the obvious for the fun of it?
    Thanks for christening the thread, twhitehead. I appreciate your presence here. Only one question. Agree with the answer?
  4. Joined
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    04 Jul '14 22:59
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]Grace Gift

    during the three hours at the Golgotha Crucifixion
    Wait! Wut! ... you were there with you stopwatch?
  5. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    05 Jul '14 00:35
    Originally posted by Kegge
    Wait! Wut! ... you were there with you stopwatch?
    Originally posted by Kegge
    Wait! Wut! ... you were there with you stopwatch?

    Not quite; wasn't born yet. However, others were. Thanks for your interest, Kegge.

    "6. The Crucifixion of Jesus > The Three Period Of Darkness Is Confirmed By Many Historians

    The Three Period Of Darkness Is Confirmed By Many Historians
    The darkness that covered Israel for three hours was recorded by three of the four Gospel writers.

    1. "Now from the sixth hour there occurred darkness over all the land until the ninth hour", Matthew 27:45.

    2. "Now when the sixth hour had come, it became dark over all the land until the ninth hour," Mark 15:33.

    3. "It was now about the sixth hour, and darkness came over all the land until the ninth hour, the sun failing" (Luke 23:44-45).

    The three evangelists testify that the darkness lasted three hours, and it 'covered all the land'.

    The Sun failed

    Luke says that 'the Sun failed.' The words used here are the Greek words, "tou heliou ekleipontos". The word "Helios" is translated "the Sun". The word "Ekleipo" is translated as 'to fail, to come to an end.'

    Thus the cause of the darkness was a failure in the Sun's light. This distinguishes the event from the mere darkness of dense thunderclouds that can cause near night-time conditions. Storms like this are unusual for Palestine, especially at Passover time. Furthermore, there would have been mention of prodigious rainfall.

    There was no eclipse of the Sun on Crucifixion day

    We should not think that the strange darkness was caused by an extended eclipse of the Sun, for that could not have occurred on the day of the Crucifixion. An eclipse of the Sun only occurs when the Moon is directly between the Sun and the Earth, thus blocking out its light. The day of the Crucifixion was the day before the traditional Passover, which was on the 14th Nisan. On the 14th Nisan there was a full Moon, as was always the case at Passover time. The Moon was therefore on the far side of the Earth away from the Sun.

    Furthermore, no eclipse of the Sun can last more than seven and a half minutes in any one place, and this strange darkness lasted for three hours. A supernatural event caused darkness to fall during Christ's death. Thus for three hours a strange darkness covered the land. The sky was clear, and the stars appeared. People would be asking themselves whether 'the end of the world' had come.

    The period of darkness was prophesied in Amos

    The Jews knew from their Bible that 'the day of the Lord' would be 'a day of darkness'. In Amos 8:9 we read, "On that day, says the Lord God, I will make the Sun to go down at noon, and darken the Earth in broad daylight. I will turn your feasting into mourning, and all your songs into lamentations."

    This darkness speaks of a time of God's judgement upon sin.

    Extra-Biblical historical evidence to support the three hour period of darkness

    The following great number of ancient writers recorded the three hour period of darkness at the time of the Crucifixion.

    Tertullian: Tertullian lived at the beginning of the 3rd century, and recorded the three hour period of darkness at the Crucifixion.

    Lucian: Lucian, the martyr of Nicomedia who died in A.D. 312, recorded the three hour period of darkness at the Crucifixion.

    Thallus: Thallus, a historian writing in AD. 52, wrote to deny any supernatural elements accompanying the Crucifixion . Though his writings are lost to us, we have the quotations of other later writers. The writing of Thallus shows that the facts of Jesus' death were known and discussed in Rome as early as the middle of the first century, to the extent that unbelievers like Thallus thought it necessary to explain the matter of the darkness as something natural. He took the existence of Christ for granted. Neither Jesus, nor the darkness at his death, were ever denied. At the time of his writing, unbelievers had already been explaining the darkness at the time of the Crucifixion as a purely natural phenomenon...."

    http://www.freechristianteaching.org/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=184#axzz36Y7bg4dy
  6. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
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    05 Jul '14 00:51
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Originally posted by Kegge
    [b]Wait! Wut! ... you were there with you stopwatch?


    Not quite; wasn't born yet. However, others were. Thanks for your interest, Kegge.

    "6. The Crucifixion of Jesus > The Three Period Of Darkness Is Confirmed By Many Historians

    The Three Period Of Darkness Is Confirmed By Many Historians
    The darkness ...[text shortened]... "

    http://www.freechristianteaching.org/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=184#axzz36Y7bg4dy[/b]
    I got the books, Thank you. I have to be honest and say I don't really listen to humans on affairs of spirit. I figure if a spirit or god or whatever it is greater than me wants to communicate directly I'll be all ear! He is erudite I'll give him that.
  7. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    05 Jul '14 00:594 edits
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I got the books, Thank you. I have to be honest and say I don't really listen to humans on affairs of spirit. I figure if a spirit or god or whatever it is greater than me wants to communicate directly I'll be all ear! He is erudite I'll give him that.
    You're welcome. All I hoped for was that you would give them an objective reading. God works through human agency. -Bob

    Edit Note: There are two more publications by the same author ["Creation, Chaos & Restoration: Appendix B Science and The Bible and Appendix C Doctrine of Scientific Laws and the Universe" and "The Origin of Human Life"] that may surprise your stereotype of an informed believer in Christ I'd very much like for you to have; may I send them Monday?
  8. Cape Town
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    05 Jul '14 07:50
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Thanks for christening the thread, twhitehead. I appreciate your presence here. Only one question. Agree with the answer?
    Of course not, but you knew that already.
  9. Standard memberRajk999
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    05 Jul '14 10:46
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]Grace Gift

    A Grace Gift is one you can't work for and eventually earn; or merit by good or exemplary behavior; or deserve by reason or virtue of birthright, genetic predisposition, community associations, economic status, academic or professional or intellectual achievements, emotional or intelligence quotients. It's little wonder that even th ...[text shortened]... ace is an insult to those who prefer to worship their own storied past, status and/or intellect.[/b]
    Translated to simpler English :

    God's grace is that He sent His son Jesus Christ to die so that whoever says with their mouth that they believe, is given eternal life immediately and regardless of their subsequent sinful lifestyle God cannot take away their eternal life and throw them in the lake of fire.

    Those who accept Christ with their heart and live righteously and follow Christ's commandments are sinful and evil for thinking that they can save themselves.
  10. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    15 Jul '14 02:152 edits
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP with italics)........................................................................................ [0] [6]
    Grace Gift

    A Grace Gift is one you can't work for and eventually earn; or merit by good or exemplary behavior; or deserve by reason or virtue of birthright, genetic predisposition, community associations, economic status, academic or professional or intellectual achievements, emotional or intelligence quotients. It's little wonder that even the mere mention in an online public forum of God's Grace Gift of His Uniquely Born Son's substitutionary spiritual death [separation from God the Father during the three hours at the Golgotha Crucifixion by Roman Centurions when all of the sins of the depraved human race were imputed to Christ to propitiate Divine Justice] so that depraved mankind could be reconciled unto Himself is met with all manner of meh ho hum dismissal, scorn and ridicule, incivility and hatred personified in personality attack. Why? Because God's Grace Gift [offered freely for the taking] is diametrically opposed to the human efforts and work products of all religions and all the isms of our times. In effect Grace is an insult to those who prefer to worship their own storied past, status and/or intellect.
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