1. Joined
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    04 Jul '10 15:15
    I was posting some Revolutionary War quotes in the debate forum and I came across this quote by Samuel Adams.

    "Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt."

    I think everyone can see the wisdom in this saying. So if morality is at the heart of our "happiness" and successful governance, how then should we tackle this problem?
  2. Standard memberRBHILL
    Acts 13:48
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    04 Jul '10 23:48
    Originally posted by whodey
    I was posting some Revolutionary War quotes in the debate forum and I came across this quote by Samuel Adams.

    "Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt."

    I think everyone can see the wisdom in this saying. So if morality is at the heart of our "happiness" and successful governance, how then should we tackle this problem?
    Yes happy 4th .
    May God Bless America.
  3. Joined
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    05 Jul '10 03:281 edit
    Let me put it another way, if morality is at the heart of the "success" that a given society will experience, then what is to become of the society that forbids teaching morality to its children in schools? Does religion or should religion play a role?
  4. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    05 Jul '10 03:54
    Originally posted by whodey
    Let me put it another way, if morality is at the heart of the "success" that a given society will experience, then what is to become of the society that forbids teaching morality to its children in schools? Does religion or should religion play a role?
    No one forbids the teaching of morality in schools. Morality and religion are not synonymous. You can give moral instruction without endorsing any religion. If you want to learn a particular religion's moral code, then you can do it in their church and not in a public school.

    So the answer is 'yes', various religions can and do play a large role in the moral instruction of a great number of people. And the appropriate venue for religious moral instruction is in the various churches. In the public schools, a secular moral instruction is appropriate.
  5. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    05 Jul '10 04:23
    The quote says MANNERS are at the heart etc, not morality.
  6. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    05 Jul '10 04:25
    Originally posted by whodey
    Let me put it another way, if morality is at the heart of the "success" that a given society will experience, then what is to become of the society that forbids teaching morality to its children in schools? Does religion or should religion play a role?
    We don't forbid teachers from teaching children about human rights! What are you talking about?
  7. Cape Town
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    05 Jul '10 06:12
    The best teacher of morals is our parents. All influential people in our lives teach us about morals, largely by example.
  8. Joined
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    05 Jul '10 13:37
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    The quote says MANNERS are at the heart etc, not morality.
    So their manners may be OK but their morality universally corrupt?
  9. Joined
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    05 Jul '10 13:42
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    We don't forbid teachers from teaching children about human rights! What are you talking about?
    I suppose I was thinking of a particular case in the public schools where a girl was raped during a study hall. One of the comments of the teacher was that it was not her job to teach morality to the children.

    Having said that, I suppose that morality is not prohibited from being taught in public schools, however, to incite God in the mix as the basis for such morality is prohibited. So are the two moralities equal? Is a godless morality worse, equal, or better to a morality based upon the Almighty? It seems to me that one morality is soley based upon the laws and whim of society with the underlying thought that it is OK so long as no one sees me doing it and the other morality is based upon never changing expectations with the knowledge that God not only sees your actions, he can read your mind.
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    05 Jul '10 13:45
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    The best teacher of morals is our parents. All influential people in our lives teach us about morals, largely by example.
    Agreed. But you must realize that children are in school on average 8 hours a day for about 40 hours a week. Considering this, don't you think that teachers play a significant role? In fact, as the morality of the society further erodes it seems that less and less children have "good" parents to teach them right from wrong. This makes teachers all the more important in teaching morality.
  11. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    05 Jul '10 13:46
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    The best teacher of morals is our parents. All influential people in our lives teach us about morals, largely by example.
    I agree with the"largely by example" part...

    Morals are more important than manners.
    Manners are for people that have not tweeked about proper morals yet.
    (Although this progression is not always such a linear progression as I have suggested)
  12. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    05 Jul '10 13:48
    Originally posted by whodey
    Agreed. But you must realize that children are in school on average 8 hours a day for about 40 hours a week. Considering this, don't you think that teachers play a significant role? In fact, as the morality of the society further erodes it seems that less and less children have "good" parents to teach them right from wrong. This makes teachers all the more important in teaching morality.
    Yep!!
    Those who think that teaching children is just a paycheck at the end of the week should change professions.
    Sell hamburgers or jeans. Please dont "teach" children if your heart is not in it.
  13. Joined
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    05 Jul '10 13:561 edit
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Yep!!
    Those who think that teaching children is just a paycheck at the end of the week should change professions.
    Sell hamburgers or jeans. Please dont "teach" children if your heart is not in it.
    You almost sound as if the teachers morality should be tested before given the job of teaching children. What a novel idea.
  14. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    05 Jul '10 14:03
    Originally posted by whodey
    I suppose I was thinking of a particular case in the public schools where a girl was raped during a study hall. One of the comments of the teacher was that it was not her job to teach morality to the children.

    Having said that, I suppose that morality is not prohibited from being taught in public schools, however, to incite God in the mix as the basis for ...[text shortened]... ging expectations with the knowledge that God not only sees your actions, he can read your mind.
    Well, let's see...we have on the one hand a religious morality that says it's perfectly OK to slaughter every living inhabitant of Jericho as long as god commands it, and on the other hand a secular morality that would send you to the Hague for that sort of thing. You tell me, Whodey, which one is preferable?

    Your god based morality is no better than secular morality as far as consistency goes. One is based upon the alleged whim of society and the other is based upon the whim of an alleged god.
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    05 Jul '10 14:101 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Well, let's see...we have on the one hand a religious morality that says it's perfectly OK to slaughter every living inhabitant of Jericho as long as god commands it, and on the other hand a secular morality that would send you to the Hague for that sort of thing. You tell me, Whodey, which one is preferable?

    Your god based morality is no better than se ...[text shortened]... based upon the alleged whim of society and the other is based upon the whim of an alleged god.
    I like what Patrick Henry said in a speech to the Virginia House of Burgesses in May 1765.

    "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not be religionists, but by Christians, not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this reason, peoples have been afforded asylum, properity, and freedom of worship here."

    He seems to be suggesting that the idea of a theocracy is repugnant. At the same time, however, he credits a Christian based focus as the reason for the nations success.
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