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Originally posted by jaywillThe harvest applies to the other flock, the great crowd that will live on the earth. Why do you not see that? Rev 14 as you just quoted says in verse 1, a small group of 144,000 will be in heaven. Period!!!! Verse 6 talks about those dwelling on the earth!!!! 2 groups jay, 2 groups only. Where do you come up with this mysterious "3rd group" you say your part of?
Galveston, think about it for a minute. In chapter 14 of Revelation you have the Firstfruits and then the Harvest.
This is a matter of [b] timing . Some crops ripen early. They are Firstfruits. Some ripen latter, the majority. They are the Harvest.
The Harvest and the Firstfruits of any farm eventually are the same.[/b]
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Originally posted by galveston75I must go now. I will converse with you latter.
The harvest applies to the other flock, the great crowd that will live on the earth. Why do you not see that? Rev 14 as you just quoted says in verse 1, a small group of 144,000 will be in heaven. Period!!!! Verse 6 talks about those dwelling on the earth!!!! 2 groups jay, 2 groups only. Where do you come up with this mysterious "3rd group" you say your part of?
But I am going to put less emphasis on these doctrinal arguments and more emphasis on receiving life through Christ coming into man.
Without this it is all meaningless. Whose in heaven? Whose on earth? How many, this and that ....
Without receiving Christ it means nothing.
Originally posted by jaywillWell now you talking ! 🙂
I must go now. I will converse with you latter.
But I am going to put less emphasis on these doctrinal arguments and more emphasis on receiving life through Christ coming into man.
Without this it is all meaningless. Whose in heaven? Whose on earth? How many, this and that ....
Without receiving Christ it means nothing.
Originally posted by jaywillWhat in the world are you saying? You really don't see how mixed up all this stuff your saying is? It seems somehow your rearanging what the scriptures are so clear about and making it somehow fit what you want.
[b]=================================
The harvest applies to the other flock, the great crowd that will live on the earth. Why do you not see that? Rev 14 as you just quoted says in verse 1, a small group of 144,000 will be in heaven. Period!!!!
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I have no problem with that.
However, this group of r ...[text shortened]... Around her are the nations, who were the SHEEP saved from the preaching of the eternal gospel.[/b]
I've seen heard really strange stuff jay but this is right up there at the top.
The truth is simle jay..simple.
Originally posted by jaywillSorry jay but you are completely wrong and you know it. That's why you think it's not important to know exactly what these scriptures are saying. They don't fit your beliefs.
I must go now. I will converse with you latter.
But I am going to put less emphasis on these doctrinal arguments and more emphasis on receiving life through Christ coming into man.
Without this it is all meaningless. Whose in heaven? Whose on earth? How many, this and that ....
Without receiving Christ it means nothing.
Originally posted by jaywillAgreed. The one who is coming on the clouds & He was pierced. Who was Pierced? Christ. Christ in His risen glorified state still bears the marks of His sacrifice for us. I remember reading the bible before I was a Christian and sure I could understand it intellectually but it had no real meaning to me. After I asked Christ to forgive me for my sins the spirit (which is God) did illuminate the words. It was indeed food for my soul! I think if nothing else this forum is causing me to get back into my bible.
Not only so manny. But I think the one calling Himself [b]the Almighty is the one coming on the clouds. And that one is the Son of Man.
I tend to think that this is the Son of Man speaking, who says He comes with the clouds. What do you think ? Look at the passage here.
"Behold, He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those ...[text shortened]... needs to be written concerning this economy of God:
http://www.godseconomy.org/
Manny
Originally posted by menace71So a question for all of you that are "Saved". When you pray to God, do you ever ask for forgiveness for anything?
Agreed. The one who is coming on the clouds & He was pierced. Who was Pierced? Christ. Christ in His risen glorified state still bears the marks of His sacrifice for us. I remember reading the bible before I was a Christian and sure I could understand it intellectually but it had no real meaning to me. After I asked Christ to forgive me for my sins the spir ...[text shortened]... soul! I think if nothing else this forum is causing me to get back into my bible.
Manny
Originally posted by galveston75I personally do yes. I would never be so presumptuous.I ask God to help me not be arrogant or evil towards my fellow man. I do however believe that the sacrifice made by Christ is sufficient to save me or anyone who asks for God's mercy. Just because someone is saved by the grace of God does not give them license to be sin.
So a question for all of you that are "Saved". When you pray to God, do you ever ask for forgiveness for anything?
Manny
Originally posted by menace71But as jay says: He's saved now! If one is already in that saved position and cannot be unsaved then why pray for forgiveness? You can't be both, still sinning and be saved.
I personally do yes. I would never be so presumptuous.I ask God to help me not be arrogant or evil towards my fellow man. I do however believe that the sacrifice made by Christ is sufficient to save me or anyone who asks for God's mercy. Just because someone is saved by the grace of God does not give them license to be sin.
Manny
Yes, Christ sacrifice is very sufficient for us all, but as long as we are still imperfect we are not saved and still have to look forward to that day we no longer have to pray daily to be forgiven of our sins. That's when his sacrifice comes into effect.
But that gift of life eternal is only given to the 144,000. They only share that special gift with Jesus and Jehovah and not even the angles will have this. No humans on earth are ever promised life eternal in the Bible. Their eternal life will still always depend on their continuing loyalty to Jehovah a was the case with Adam and Eve.
One major point that most miss about the new Testiment is that most of what Jesus spoke of as well as the Apostles only applies to the 144,000 or the "Little Flock" that Jesus spoke of so often. If one could grasp that, then most of the confusion that is so previlent about the new Testiment would become clear.
This is where we would part though. Christ said if any man thirst I will give him living water that springs up to eternal life. The offer was to all men. Not a select few such as the 144,000. It's obvious that the 144,000 are set aside by God for some special purpose but God's offer of salvation is to all who will come. I think some would say they are saved to show the mercy of God is all.
Manny