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    01 Dec '07 23:422 edits
    To all who believe in the Chistian concept of Heaven, do you think to get in you have to be a Christian?

    For example what if you have never been introduced to Christianity?
    ( if it is not even present in your society)

    i assume the though (like young children) you can not be perecuted.
  2. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    01 Dec '07 23:45
    Originally posted by 123roco
    To all who believe in the Chistian concept of Heaven, do you think to get in you have to be a Christian?

    For example what if you have never been introduced to Christianitym ( if it is ot even present in your society), i assume the though (like young children) you can not be perecuted.
    You have to go to church every Sunday unless you're sick, and not be gay.
  3. Standard membernmdavidb
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    01 Dec '07 23:56
    You have to find that special Monopoly set that has the "Get Out Of Hell Free" card.

    Dave
    ( still looking for it )
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    02 Dec '07 02:05
    Joke answers amusing- although less informative
  5. Standard membernmdavidb
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    02 Dec '07 03:08
    Originally posted by 123roco
    Joke answers amusing- although less informative
    Well look at your question...all religions believe different things...when i was young and still a Mormon they thought that they were the one true church and the ONLY ones getting in...which leads me to this joke...

    Man dies and goes to heaven and is met at the gates by St. Peter who offers to show him around...and as they are walking they see a large group of people sitting on the ground and talking...the man asks..

    "Who are those people?"

    "Those are the jews getting ready for one of their holidays", answered Peter.

    They walk a little farther and to the right is a different group...so the man asks again..

    "Who are those people?"

    "Those are the catholics having their morning mass"...

    This goes on for awhile through various groups of religious beliefs when all of the sudden they come to a huge wall and the man can hear all kinds of rejoicing and singing going on on the other side of it and looks at Peter and asks..

    "What is going on over there?" to which Peter replies...

    "Shuuuushhhhh!! Those are the Mormons...they think they are the only ones here"

    hehehehe

    Dave
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    02 Dec '07 03:43
    John 14:6

    Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

    For this reason that is why you see the Great Commission given in

    Matthew 28:16-20

    16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
  7. Illinois
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    02 Dec '07 07:425 edits
    Originally posted by 123roco
    To all who believe in the Chistian concept of Heaven, do you think to get in you have to be a Christian?

    For example what if you have never been introduced to Christianity?
    ( if it is not even present in your society)

    i assume the though (like young children) you can not be perecuted.
    To all who believe in the Chistian concept of Heaven, do you think to get in you have to be a Christian?

    Not necessarily.

    Paul, in Romans 1:20, says that everyone, whether they've ever heard of Christ or not, is sufficiently aware of God to be held responsible for not seeking Him: "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse" (NKJV).

    I don't think God is going to give a theology exam as an entrance test to heaven. If He did, we'd all flunk parts of it. Explicit knowledge of the incarnate Jesus, i.e., the six-foot-high, thirty-three-year-old Jewish carpenter, is clearly not necessary for salvation. Abraham, Moses, and Elijah, for instance, had no such knowledge, yet they were saved. How? They said yes to the pre-incarnate Christ, i.e., the Logos; the divine Word or Light or Reason. In the same way everyone can come to know the Logos without having explicit knowledge of the incarnate Jesus, "the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world" (John 1:9).

    Pascal said there are only three kinds of people in the world: those who have sought God and found him, those who are seeking Him and have not found Him, and those who neither seek Him nor find Him. Pascal called the first class "reasonable (wise) and happy" -- reasonable because they seek and happy because they find. He calls the second class "reasonable and unhappy" -- reasonable because they seek and unhappy because they have not yet found. He called the third class "unreasonable and unhappy" -- unreasonable because they do not seek and unhappy because they do not find. Christ Himself says that all who seek shall find (Matthew 7:7-8), therefore we can conclude that seeking Truth is the first necessary step to salvation and that all those who truly seek it shall find it.

    Seeking righteousness, justice and truth is really the same as seeking God Himself, because God is Truth. Truth-seeking is inspired by God and motivated by the will. It is the love of Truth which makes one seek it. And seeking is already a kind of faith. Since God is a just and righteous God, those who do what is right are His children, regardless of any explicit knowledge of the incarnate Jesus.

    Consider this passage from Romans:

    "For God does not show favoritism. When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God’s written law. And the Jews, who do have God’s law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it. For merely listening to the law doesn’t make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight. Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. And this is the message I proclaim—that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone’s secret life" (Romans 2:11-16, NLT).

    As you can see, how those people who have never heard of Christ or God's law assimilate the "law written in their hearts" determines what kind of judgment they will ultimately receive. So we can conclude that everyone possesses the knowledge and free will necessary to either violate the conscience or submit to what is righteous and just. That is, everyone knows how to repent. All can repent, because all know the moral law.

    "Seek the Lord while he may be found, call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake their way, and the unrighteous their thoughts; let them return [repent] to the Lord, that he may have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon" (Isaiah 55:6-7).

    Any "pagan" who has never heard of Christ or the Bible can seek God, repent of his sins, and obscurely believe in and accept the God he knows partially and obscurely. Therefore, any "pagan" can be saved, or damned, if he refuses to seek, repent and believe. There is enough light and enough opportunity, enough knowledge and enough free choice, to make everyone responsible before God. God is just. And a just God judges justly, not unjustly; that is, he judges according to the knowledge each individual has, not according to a knowledge they do not have (James 3:1).

    I hope that answers your question... The criteria for heaven are seeking God, turning away from evil and doing good, and having faith. All three are possible without having explicit knowledge of either the incarnate Christ or God's law.
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    02 Dec '07 12:511 edit
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    [b]To all who believe in the Chistian concept of Heaven, do you think to get in you have to be a Christian?

    Not necessarily.

    Paul, in Romans 1:20, says that everyone, whether they've ever heard of Christ or not, is sufficiently aware of God to be held responsible for not seeking Him: "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes having explicit knowledge of either the incarnate Christ or God's law.[/b]
    No ....... I dont believe that .. Epi ? Is that you?
    What happened to the Epiphinehas that believed only Christians can get salvation? 🙂
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    02 Dec '07 17:231 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    No ....... I dont believe that .. Epi ? Is that you?
    What happened to the Epiphinehas that believed only Christians can get salvation? 🙂
    Yep, it's me. 🙂 After taking a long, hard look at the scriptural data, I found that it's impossible to rule out the salvation of those who have had little or no exposure to Christ or God's law.

    Though, undoubtedly, it is still far more desirable to know personally the incarnate Christ than not.
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    02 Dec '07 17:48
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    [b]To all who believe in the Chistian concept of Heaven, do you think to get in you have to be a Christian?

    Not necessarily.

    Paul, in Romans 1:20, says that everyone, whether they've ever heard of Christ or not, is sufficiently aware of God to be held responsible for not seeking Him: "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes ...[text shortened]... having explicit knowledge of either the incarnate Christ or God's law.[/b]
    I hope you continue to sincerely seek Truth.

    It is written in the hearts of all.

    May you live a life of humility, love, compassion, justice, etc.
  11. Illinois
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    02 Dec '07 18:06
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    I hope you continue to sincerely seek Truth.

    It is written in the hearts of all.

    May you live a life of humility, love, compassion, justice, etc.
    Likewise. Are you prepared yet to admit that knowing the incarnate Jesus personally, through faith, delivers people from the Judgment? Christ commanded his disciples to preach the Gospel to all the world for a reason.
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    02 Dec '07 18:29
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    Likewise. Are you prepared yet to admit that knowing the incarnate Jesus personally, through faith, delivers people from the Judgment? Christ commanded his disciples to preach the Gospel to all the world for a reason.
    The teachings of Jesus can lead one to Truth. He teaches one to seek Truth and live a life of humility, love, compassion, justice, etc. This is also written in the hearts of all.

    This is what I continue to believe.

    The truth will make you free.
  13. Standard memberRajk999
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    02 Dec '07 19:13
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    Yep, it's me. 🙂 After taking a long, hard look at the scriptural data, I found that it's impossible to rule out the salvation of those who have had little or no exposure to Christ or God's law.

    Though, undoubtedly, it is still far more desirable to know personally the incarnate Christ than not.
    This is great news ! And yes, I think that those with a more intimate knowledge of Christ has an advantage, much like those who actually lived at the time of Christ did.

    Unfortunately your change of mind wont sit well with most Christians. How did the rest of your congregation take this news. Did you tell them?
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    04 Dec '07 12:40
    if its only chrisians then jesus wont be there, born and died a jew. jesus is the way who he forgives of sins will enter. no religion needed in heaven, anyone who does his work will be forgiven, rather than them who speak one way and do another.
  15. Joined
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    04 Dec '07 14:362 edits
    Originally posted by 123roco
    To all who believe in the Chistian concept of Heaven, do you think to get in you have to be a Christian?

    For example what if you have never been introduced to Christianity?
    ( if it is not even present in your society)

    i assume the though (like young children) you can not be perecuted.
    To say that only Christians make it into heaven would be to say that such men as Moses and Abraham are not in heaven which no Bible believing Christian in their right mind would ever conceed. From my studying of the Bible it appears to me that God desires us to live in love towards one another and to have faith in him. However, this does not always happen and we transgress these laws in some form or fashion. It has been my interpretation that God only expects us to begin to walk in faith and love where we are at and then we are considered to be walking in righteousness as we walk by our faith in love.

    Having said all that, what is the deal with Christ? It is my understanding that God is holy and needs our sins to be removed from his sight thus Christ's sacrifice was used to do so for all of mankind before and after his coming. Now as we begin to walk in faith and love with our God our sins are covered by the blood of Christ. However, what of those who try to walk in faith and love with God and reject Christ as the one who died for our sins? If Christ came from God, as most who are religious conceed, then are we walking in faith in what God has told us through Christ which is that he came as a sacrificial lamb to die for the sins of many? It is a difficult question to answer and I am glad I am not the one making such decisions. As for me, however, I will walk in faith in regards to what Christ has said!!
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