Hebrews Chapter Six

Originally posted by Rajk999
The anus is on you... 🙂

Not interested in answering further. Believe what you wish.

Why not? If you are certain of your position and you say scripture "clearly" shows that they lost their eternal life, then it should be simple to demonstrate it.

Originally posted by divegeester
Why not? If you are certain of your position and you say scripture "clearly" shows that they lost their eternal life, then it should be simple to demonstrate it.

Actually its up to you to prove that these people will get eternal life. The Bible said they conspired with each other to lie to the Holy Spirit. Thats an insult to God according to Christ. God killed them. How did they still get eternal life ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit. This is blasphemy [check the meaning]

[i]Mar 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Rev ...[text shortened]... , and you will still be in Gods Kingdom then ... good for you .. you enjoy a life of delusion..

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

These are both good verses. Do they indicate that Hebrews chapter 6 teaches the partakers of the Holy Spirit may find it impossible to escape eternal perdition ? Maybe Rajk999 has a point ?

Revelation 21:7 does seem to be God's utterance from the age of the new heaven and new earth.

"He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be God to him, and he will be a son to Me." (Rev. 21:7)

"[T]hese things" surely refer to what has just been discribed in verse 1 through verse 6 such as:

1.) a new heaven and new earth (v.1),
2.) the holy city New Jerusalem (v.2),
3.) the enjoyment of "marrying" Christ as His eternal counterpart (v.2) 4.)the dwelling of God Himself in the midst of the people's populating the earth (v.3)
5.) the abolition of all tears, death, sorrow, crying, pain and such "former things" (v.4)
6.) all things being made new (v.5)
7.) the springs of the water of life (v.6)

Now verse 7 says that this will be the portion of all those who overcome.
"He who overcomes will inherit thee things, and I will be God to him, and he will be a son to Me." (v.7)

"The meaning of the word "overcome" here is different from that in chs. 2 and 3, where the word is used seven times. Here it means to overcome by believing, as in 1 John 5:4-5."

First John 5:4-5 - "For everything that has been begotten of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory which has overcome the world - our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world except him who believes that Jesus is the Son of God."

The overcoming is Revelation 2 and 3 qualifies the overcoming and victorious believer to participate in the enjoyment of the millennial kingdom as a particular reward in God's dispensational administration.

Before the age of the new heaven and new earth there is set up the 1,000 year millennial kingdom as an incentive for the saved to cooperate with God's workings of grace within their being. This is a kind of graduation with honors to the normal victorious overcoming believer. (It should be NORMAL to overcome, if not AVERAGE).

The overcoming mentioned in Revelation 21:7 concerns the common enjoyment of all who were saved through faith. Whether they were transformed early or transformed latter in a remedial way, they eventually ALL end up in the eternal age. If they all did not participate in the millennial kingdom, they ALL will finally be suited to enjoy the eternal age.

In this way Rev. 21:7 refers to the overall overcoming of faith. The FAITH has caused them to overcome as a qualification to enter into the eternal life in the new heaven and new earth with its blessings mentioned in verses 1 through 6.

This is the common enjoyment as a portion for all of the people saved by faith - " ... and this is the victory which has overcome the world - OUR FAITH. " (1 John 5:4b)

Who is the one who overcomes the world except him who believes that Jesus is the Son of God ? (v.5).

In general Revelation 21:7 just proves that all who have believed in Jesus Christ will eventually be in the eternal salvation.

I stop here.

Originally posted by sonship

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

...[text shortened]... ho have believed in Jesus Christ will eventually be in the eternal salvation.

I stop here.

Everything you write is an insult to God :

I can lie to God and still get eternal life.
I can cheat God and still get eternal life.
I can try to deceive God and still get eternal life
God cannot do me anything. He is powerless

Thats was the attitude of Satan.
Your doctrine is of Satan.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Everything you write is an insult to God :

[b] I can lie to God and still get eternal life.
I can cheat God and still get eternal life.
I can try to deceive God and still get eternal life
God cannot do me anything. He is powerless

Thats was the attitude of Satan.
Your doctrine is of Satan.[/b]

I can lie to God and still get eternal life.
I can cheat God and still get eternal life.
I can try to deceive God and still get eternal life
God cannot do me anything. He is powerless

I do not recognize any of these concepts as something I taught.
Especially the last sentence which was completely negated by my thread on "The Judgment Seat of Christ" .

Bearing false witness is a sin.
According to your own theology you are sinning willfully.

The rest of this post is not for you:
====================================

We have a verse in First John where the apostles scolds the Christians to say how can eternal life be dwelling in them if they hate a brother OR close up their compassion towards a brother in material need:

We know that we have passed out of death into life because we love the brothers. He who does not love abides in death.

Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. (1 John 3:14,15)

Now it is a sad fact of life that some Christians can hate other Christians.
And John said that this hating person is a murder. And no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

So, isn't this an argument of a Christian who falls into hating another has lost eternal life ?

It does not mean that. And it does not mean a Christian should feel excused to be a hater, of course.

It means that though this brother has the gift of eternal life he is not abiding in its sweet influence in any practical way. His spirit is born of God but he is still living in the old soul life.

"Everyone who hates his brother is a murder" Probably, John has in mind the brotherhood of Christians. Though some may take this as the brotherhood of all created men, probably John is speaking of Christian brothers. I say this because of verses 13 before and 16 afterwards:

"Do not marvel, brothers, if the world hates you." (v.13)

John men and women in the Christian brotherhood which are likely to be hated by the world. The household of faith is what binds these brothers together. They have the same divine life and the same divine Father.

"In this we know love, that He laid down His life on our behalf, and we ought to lay down our lives on behalf of the brothers." (v.16)

So I think John's usage of "brother/s" in this portion of his letter is meant to be understood as Christian brothers.

Now He says the "brother" who hates another "brother" is a murderer. And " ... no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." (v.15) But the hating one is still a brother. So this is a brother with the life of the Father who is not practically living in the sphere of that life's enfluence. He is rather abiding in death. He is letting his old nature run his life. And for all practical purposes eternal life is not being manifested in him.

"We know that we have passed out of death into life because we love the brothers. He who who does no abide in love abides in death."

It is passages like this which the Arminians like Rajk999 derive fuel from. And it is not as if they have absolutely no ground. There is some ground here to point out that obedience lacking means eternal life lacking.

While I am sympathetic somewhat to their reasoning, I cannot be totally so because of too much of the rest of the New Testament.

But John, in his letter, does speak sometimes of eternal life being practically manifested in a godly living. What use today is your eternal life if you are still living like the devil? This is the tone of practically every post of Rajk999 on the subject.

In this chapter LOVE is the expression of LIFE.
The eternal life is made visible on earth today especially in the divine and agape LOVE.

We Christians know that we have eternal life because it is manifested in our being drawn to the brothers in the brotherhood. If we are not warmly draw to the brothers yet hate on because of some offense or something else, how is eternal life having any practical influence in us ?

The GIFT is there because he believes.
The influence and manifestation is lacking because he abides not in the Lord's indwelling Holy Spirit but in his old fallen and hating self.

Originally posted by sonship

I can lie to God and still get eternal life.
I can cheat God and still get eternal life.
I can try to deceive God and still get eternal life
God cannot do me anything. He is powerless

I do not recognize any of these concepts as something I taught.
Especially the last sentence which was completely negated by my thread on [b]"The Jud ...[text shortened]... ecause he abides not in the Lord's indwelling Holy Spirit but in his old fallen and hating self.

There is NO LOVE in you telling people that they can sin and God will still grand them eternal life.

There is NO HATE in me telling them exactly what Christ and the Apostles say regarding sin.

You are deceitful.

I am truthful.

End of Story.

Originally posted by Rajk999
There is NO LOVE in you telling people that they can sin and God will still grand them eternal life.

There is NO HATE in me telling them exactly what Christ and the Apostles say regarding sin.

You are deceitful.

I am truthful.

End of Story.

There is NO LOVE in you telling people that they can sin and God will still grand them eternal life.

The bible tells men and women how they may be justified, redeemed, given the gift of eternal life. It does not stop there. That is your false accusation that I long to stop there.

The bible goes on to tell how the saved may be Sanctified, Transformed, Glorified, and Rewarded..

It is your false accusation that I eagerly harbor a desire for people to live sinfully. The essence of your accusation is that my only motive is to give people a license to live displeasingly to God.

Notice the accusation - " ... you telling people that they can sin and God will still grand them eternal life. "

The way you frame your accusation is that what is topmost on my mind is sinning.

Well, my conscience is clear. For the book of Hebrews is well balanced. It on one hand speaks of Christ offering one sacrifice for sins FOREVER and that He will by no means remember our sins and iniquities any more. And it speaks of Him living forever as a perpetual High Priest who is able to save us to the uttermost.

On the other hand there are quite a few warnings of a sobering nature informing us that God is not mocked and there is a great salvation to attend to. There are consequences for neglecting "so great a salvation" .

I teach as the Bible teaches.

You are the kind of person I can see going to any worship gathering or study of the Bible and being pretty much isolated, frowning, self righteously looking down on everyone else present. Because only YOU understand the Scripture and only YOU know how to live as a Christian.

You must be joyless and miserable with accusation in any gathering of believers in the New Testament.

You are deceitful.

I am truthful.

"The Pharisee stood and prayed these things to himself: God, I thank You that I am not like the rest of men - extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give a tenth of all that I get. " (Luke 18:11,12)

I'd rather rejoice that I am a sinner saved by grace.

End of Story.