1. Territories Unknown
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    24 Jan '15 01:521 edit
    Newly developed software technology may unlock the previously unreadable scrolls from what most likely was the library of Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus, the father-in-law of Julius Caesar.
    Contemporary with the eruption of Vesuvius in 79 AD, one wonders what will be revealed in the 2000 year old documents.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/01/150122114405.htm

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/21/science/more-progress-made-toward-learning-contents-of-herculaneum-scrolls.html?_r=0
  2. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Jan '15 01:57
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Newly developed software technology may unlock the previously unreadable scrolls from what most likely was the library of Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus, the father-in-law of Julius Caesar.
    Contemporary with the eruption of Vesuvius in 79 AD, one wonders what will be revealed in the 2000 year old documents.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/ ...[text shortened]... /2015/01/21/science/more-progress-made-toward-learning-contents-of-herculaneum-scrolls.html?_r=0
    What would be the mechanism, I wonder, for absorbing anything from them into what might be described as 'official' Christian literature, just supposing there were to be something that warranted that?
  3. Territories Unknown
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    24 Jan '15 02:03
    Originally posted by FMF
    What would be the mechanism, I wonder, for absorbing anything from them into what might be described as 'official' Christian literature, just supposing there were to be something that warranted that?
    From the NYT article:

    "The scrolls that have been opened pertain mostly to Greek philosophy and contain several works by Epicurus and his adherent Philodemus.
    But the library may also have had a Latin section.
    This could contain some of the many lost works of Roman history and literature.
    Even the texts of known works would be of great interest."
  4. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Jan '15 02:16
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    From the NYT article:

    "The scrolls that have been opened pertain mostly to Greek philosophy and contain several works by Epicurus and his adherent Philodemus.
    But the library may also have had a Latin section.
    This could contain some of the many lost works of Roman history and literature.
    Even the texts of known works would be of great interest."
    OK. I admit I wasn't bothered to go to your links (and it's not just yours) and so it seems my question is moot. If anything is found in the Roman history bits that contradicts or confirms 'Christian history' then it would be interesting but I don't think Jesus was famous enough during his lifetime for this to be the case. 🙂
  5. Standard memberDeepThought
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    24 Jan '15 02:21
    Originally posted by FMF
    What would be the mechanism, I wonder, for absorbing anything from them into what might be described as 'official' Christian literature, just supposing there were to be something that warranted that?
    I wouldn't have thought there'd be anything directly relevant to Christianity since they won't have had any records pertinent to Christianity in Herculaneum in 79 A.D.. It might give us information about the old Roman religion, along with numerous otherwise lost philosophical works which may shed light on later Christian thinking. They're still in the early days of the technique and from reading the article on the BBC website they haven't got a massively clear image yet. Unravelling this is not trivial as the scrolls were compressed longitudinally as well as being rolled up, so they have quite a lot of decoding to do.
  6. Territories Unknown
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    24 Jan '15 02:48
    Originally posted by FMF
    OK. I admit I wasn't bothered to go to your links (and it's not just yours) and so it seems my question is moot. If anything is found in the Roman history bits that contradicts or confirms 'Christian history' then it would be interesting but I don't think Jesus was famous enough during his lifetime for this to be the case. 🙂
    It wouldn't be surprising to see a reference to Christ/Christianity or the absence thereof.
    By the time of the eruption, Paul had been preaching the Gospel throughout the Mediterranean region for over three decades, and in the same year Paul evangelized in Greece (49 AD), the emperor Claudius expelled Christians from the city of Rome.
    Fifteen years before the destruction, Nero blamed Christians for his actions in the burning of Rome.
    For those reasons, I suspect we will find some mention of Christianity, directly or indirectly.

    However, I (like most Christians) do not derive my faith from the annals of man, but rather from the message of the Christ.
    Walt Disney--- despite being the head of a studio which produced literally hundreds and hundreds of productions for the consumption of average folks everywhere--- never once mentioned God in any of his presentations.
    If we only had his works to go on in explaining the human experience, would we conclude there is no God?
  7. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Jan '15 03:08
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    If we only had [Walt Disney's] works to go on in explaining the human experience, would we conclude there is no God?
    I don't think what Walt Disney produced (or its content or purpose) can be compared to a deliberate or systematic work of history about something like, in this case, the Roman empire. But it's an interesting rhetorical device you are using. I think it might be better suited for talking to people with the same beliefs as you as it doesn't hold up well after a few seconds of thought. 🙂

    Fifteen years before the destruction, Nero blamed Christians for his actions in the burning of Rome. For those reasons, I suspect we will find some mention of Christianity, directly or indirectly.

    I wasn't really talking about whether there'd be some mention of Christianity or not (my mention of 'Christian history' was clumsy). I was more thinking of primary source material about Jesus himself that isn't (and hasn't always been) under the control of his followers. It could be interesting.
  8. Territories Unknown
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    24 Jan '15 03:33
    Originally posted by FMF
    I don't think what Walt Disney produced (or its content or purpose) can be compared to a deliberate or systematic work of history about something like, in this case, the Roman empire. But it's an interesting rhetorical device you are using. I think it might be better suited for talking to people with the same beliefs as you as it doesn't hold up well after a few ...[text shortened]... that isn't (and hasn't always been) under the control of his followers. It could be interesting.
    But it's an interesting rhetorical device you are using. I think it might be better suited for talking to people with the same beliefs as you as it doesn't hold up well after a few seconds of thought.
    People with the same beliefs as what, exactly?
    If there is literature in those carbonized cones--- and there most certainly will be--- and said literature doesn't make any reference to Christianity, such a situation would be analagous to none of Disney's productions broaching the topic of God, despite speaking to an overwhelmingly spiritual group of people.
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Jan '15 04:061 edit
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    FMF: But it's an interesting rhetorical device you are using. I think it might be better suited for talking to people with the same beliefs as you as it doesn't hold up well after a few seconds of thought.
    People with the same beliefs as what, exactly?
    The thing about what light Walt Disney's product supposedly sheds on the nature of historical evidence struck me as being one of those little gimmicky things Christians use to bolster an idea or opinion, but it's just a silly (and harmless) device that is probably more suited to Christians talking to each other ~ a lot of C.S. Lewis quotes seem to fall into this category.

    I can see how quoting C.S. Lewis, for example, might get nods and winks of approval in an all-Christian arena, but I am quite baffled as to why Christians think his quotes are going to persuade non-Christians with regard to beliefs.

    Your Walt Disney analogy (if that's the right word) was a dud, to my way of thinking, and is probably suited more for use with people with the same sort of belief in the traction of such analogies as you appear to have, than it is to someone like me. 😀
  10. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Jan '15 04:11
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    If there is literature in those carbonized cones--- and there most certainly will be--- and said literature doesn't make any reference to Christianity, such a situation would be analagous to none of Disney's productions broaching the topic of God, despite speaking to an overwhelmingly spiritual group of people.
    I was, as you know, referring to the possibility that there may be "many lost works of Roman history", and explicitly so. Therefore your comparison of what they may contain with what we know Disney's productions contain is not an analogy that can be taken seriously. 🙂
  11. Territories Unknown
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    24 Jan '15 04:34
    Originally posted by FMF
    The thing about what light Walt Disney's product supposedly sheds on the nature of historical evidence struck me as being one of those little gimmicky things Christians use to bolster an idea or opinion, but it's just a silly (and harmless) device that is probably more suited to Christians talking to each other ~ a lot of C.S. Lewis quotes seem to fall into this ...[text shortened]... elief in the traction of such analogies as you appear to have, than it is to someone like me. 😀
    Inserting emoticons into ones responses in the hopes of counterbalancing rudeness otherwise is silly.
    Attempting to make a point where none exists is silly.
    Over-reaching to superimpose on another's thoughts what is clearly not being conveyed is silly.
    Carrying an axe on ones person, constantly seeking a place with which to grind it is silly.
  12. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Jan '15 04:44
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Inserting emoticons into ones responses in the hopes of counterbalancing rudeness otherwise is silly.
    Attempting to make a point where none exists is silly.
    Over-reaching to superimpose on another's thoughts what is clearly not being conveyed is silly.
    Carrying an axe on ones person, constantly seeking a place with which to grind it is silly.
    You're talking about me and you've dropped the topic. I must have hit a nail on the head. 😉
  13. Territories Unknown
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    24 Jan '15 04:52
    Originally posted by FMF
    You're talking about me and you've dropped the topic. I must have hit a nail on the head. 😉
    Troll.
    /conversation
  14. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    24 Jan '15 04:59
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Newly developed software technology may unlock the previously unreadable scrolls from what most likely was the library of Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus, the father-in-law of Julius Caesar.
    Contemporary with the eruption of Vesuvius in 79 AD, one wonders what will be revealed in the 2000 year old documents.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/ ...[text shortened]... /2015/01/21/science/more-progress-made-toward-learning-contents-of-herculaneum-scrolls.html?_r=0
    "We have a ton of data from all of our preliminary work, and from the 2009-2010 work," said Brent Seales, one of the researchers, in a news release. "We're using that data to build software so that we can pull out large sections and flatten them. To date, no tool exists that can accomplish that. The software we're building will be the first to visualize data in that way, and it's crucial to uncovering the works inside the Herculaneum scrolls."

    Currently, the researchers are working hard to unravel what these scrolls say. In time, we may just see an entire new view of ancient history."

    http://www.scienceworldreport.com/articles/21555/20150123/major-breakthrough-unlocking-secrets-ancient-herculaneum-scrolls.htm

    Fascinating work. Imagine the sense of anticipation and discovery these researchers must have each new day!
    Nice change of pace topic. Thanks.
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    24 Jan '15 08:40
    Originally posted by FMF
    What would be the mechanism, I wonder, for absorbing anything from them into what might be described as 'official' Christian literature, just supposing there were to be something that warranted that?
    Slowness.
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