1. Standard memberWulebgr
    Angler
    River City
    Joined
    08 Dec '04
    Moves
    16907
    23 Aug '09 00:28
    Has anyone read A Natural History of Nonsense? I'm told that the author has much to say about the intellectual history of the logic that produced Creationism and the Birthers, although he was writing more than half a century ago.
  2. Joined
    02 Aug '06
    Moves
    12622
    23 Aug '09 01:581 edit
    Originally posted by Wulebgr
    Has anyone read A Natural History of Nonsense? I'm told that the author has much to say about the intellectual history of the logic that produced Creationism and the Birthers, although he was writing more than half a century ago.
    I think that I heard that that book was not actually written. Rather it came flying out of the wreckage of a tornado that cut through a print factory in the Midwest 50 years ago. It was an accident.

    Apparently in the turmoil, some of the "chapters' randomly were blown together to appear to discuss something about the nonsense of Creationsim.
  3. Joined
    15 Sep '04
    Moves
    7051
    23 Aug '09 02:06
    Originally posted by jaywill
    I think that I heard that that book was not actually written. Rather it came flying out of the wreckage of a tornado that cut through a print factory in the Midwest 50 years ago. It was an accident.

    Apparently in the turmoil, some of the "chapters' randomly were blown together to appear to discuss something about the nonsense of Creationsim.
    What exactly is the sum of your knowledge of evolutionary theory? Would I be right in guessing that your only source of education is a child's copy of 1001 Pictures of Animals through the Ages, now with join the dots?
  4. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    23 Aug '09 03:49
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    What exactly is the sum of your knowledge of evolutionary theory? Would I be right in guessing that your only source of education is a child's copy of 1001 Pictures of Animals through the Ages, now with join the dots?
    Few Questions: (1) With chess as an illustrative metaphor, doesn't faith/belief in evolution theory premise that an impersonal 'box'

    somehow gradually arrived at all of the necessary tactical decisions, made the correct sequential moves and got the end result of the

    game right? (2) What dynamics enabled the 'box' to originate its own universal strategy in the first place? (3) Who made the 'box'?
  5. Joined
    07 Mar '09
    Moves
    18217
    23 Aug '09 04:53
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Few Questions: (1) With chess as an illustrative metaphor, doesn't faith/belief in [b]evolution theory premise that an impersonal 'box'

    somehow gradually arrived at all of the necessary tactical decisions, made the correct sequential moves and got the end result of the

    game right? (2) What dynamics enabled the 'box' to originate its own universal strategy in the first place? (3) Who made the 'box'?[/b]
    Doesn't this presuppose quite a lot? For instance, that the game is going well. It is quite likely that while you stubbornly cling to a bronze age belief system an unstoppable big rock will randomly strike the earth and end our little game. Isn't it the very zenith of arrogance to take for granted your position in the universe?

    Likewise, can you not appreciate what a fool's errand it is to hypothesize a doer for everything done? If a maker made the box then who made the maker - or does making stop somewhere convenient to you? May be it stopped before you were able to notice it.

    In any case, these arguments are child's play and long ago disposed of by the intelligent supporters of your beliefs - why continue to dredge them up and show that you lack understanding? Educate yourself on these issues and you could surely make better arguments for your cause. You do your beliefs a disservice.
  6. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    23 Aug '09 04:562 edits
    Simple (and/or complex) answer to the few questions would suffice. No need whatsoever to emote,

    admonish, intrude derivative questions or tie yourself up in new philosophical speculation knots.
  7. Joined
    15 Sep '04
    Moves
    7051
    23 Aug '09 09:21
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Few Questions: (1) With chess as an illustrative metaphor, doesn't faith/belief in [b]evolution theory premise that an impersonal 'box'

    somehow gradually arrived at all of the necessary tactical decisions, made the correct sequential moves and got the end result of the

    game right? (2) What dynamics enabled the 'box' to originate its own universal strategy in the first place? (3) Who made the 'box'?[/b]
    You will need to clarify your question. I would think that anything capable of tactical decisions would have some level of personhood, and could not be described as a mere impersonal 'box'.
  8. Joined
    02 Aug '06
    Moves
    12622
    23 Aug '09 10:424 edits
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    What exactly is the sum of your knowledge of evolutionary theory? Would I be right in guessing that your only source of education is a child's copy of 1001 Pictures of Animals through the Ages, now with join the dots?
    ==================================
    What exactly is the sum of your knowledge of evolutionary theory? Would I be right in guessing that your only source of education is a child's copy of 1001 Pictures of Animals through the Ages, now with join the dots?
    ================================


    What theory ? Evolution is the gift to mankind from the rational mind. To not realize this is to remain in the Dark Ages before people could think.

    Now that 1001 Pictures of Animals is too deep for me. I need something a little more straight forward. So I have one book in my library called Life Evolution Explained by Philip Whitfield.


    Okay, seriously. I am not totally anti-Evolution. I think perhaps something like punctuated equilibria is something that should be explored more.

    Maybe you could make a few modifications in your question to some other poster and write it this way:

    What exactly is the sum of your knowledge of Creationism? Would I be right in guessing that your only source of education is The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins?
  9. Joined
    02 Aug '06
    Moves
    12622
    23 Aug '09 11:034 edits
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    Doesn't this presuppose quite a lot? For instance, that the game is going well. It is quite likely that while you stubbornly cling to a bronze age belief system an unstoppable big rock will randomly strike the earth and end our little game. Isn't it the very zenith of arrogance to take for granted your position in the universe?

    Likewise, can you not and you could surely make better arguments for your cause. You do your beliefs a disservice.
    ========================
    If a maker made the box then who made the maker -
    ==============================


    Now that's a good question ! WHO made the Maker ??

    Who made the maker?
    And who made the maker of that maker?
    And who made the maker of that maker?
    And who made the maker of the maker of the maker of the maker ?
    Etc. Etc. Etc.

    Very good. And I have one for you.

    How did the process of evolution itself evolve?
    And how did the evolution of the process of evolution evolve?
    And how did the evolution of the evolution of the evolutionary process evolve?
    And how did the evolution of the process of evolution of the process of evolution of that evolution of the process of evolution evolve?

    And how did that evolutionary process evolve? And where did it all start then?

    Infinite regress works both ways. Doesn't it?
  10. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    23 Aug '09 15:06
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    You will need to clarify your question. I would think that anything capable of tactical decisions would have some level of personhood, and could not be described as a mere impersonal 'box'.
    "... have some level of personhood, and could not be described as a mere impersonal 'box'."




    Hmm...
  11. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
    Brisbane,QLD
    Joined
    11 Apr '09
    Moves
    91531
    23 Aug '09 16:271 edit
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]========================
    If a maker made the box then who made the maker -
    ==============================


    Now that's a good question ! WHO made the Maker ??

    Who made the maker?
    And who made the maker of that maker?
    And who made the maker of that maker?
    And who made the maker of the maker of the maker of the maker ?
    Etc ...[text shortened]... ss evolve? And where did it all start then?

    Infinite regress works both ways. Doesn't it?[/b]
    Wow so many question marks. I'll have a shot.

    1.(a footsoldier of)God
    2. Some one a bit higher up
    3. Probably God herself, but ...I... cant...be...sure.
    (etc.,etc.)
    4.With Divine guidance
    5. 'ditto'
    6. With a little nudge from God. (who doesn't normally nudge anything)

    7.(And where did it all start then?) Nowhere, Man. Its a spiral- no beginning, no end.

    Hows that?
    Objections?

    edit: I realize thats not all the question marks answered, but I gave it a shot...
  12. Joined
    15 Sep '04
    Moves
    7051
    23 Aug '09 16:44
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]==================================
    What exactly is the sum of your knowledge of evolutionary theory? Would I be right in guessing that your only source of education is a child's copy of 1001 Pictures of Animals through the Ages, now with join the dots?
    ================================


    What theory ? Evolution is the gift to mankind from ...[text shortened]... ight in guessing that your only source of education is The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins?[/b][/b]
    So exactly what was the point of your first post?
  13. Joined
    07 Mar '09
    Moves
    18217
    23 Aug '09 17:03
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]========================
    If a maker made the box then who made the maker -
    ==============================


    Now that's a good question ! WHO made the Maker ??

    Who made the maker?
    And who made the maker of that maker?
    And who made the maker of that maker?
    And who made the maker of the maker of the maker of the maker ?
    Etc ...[text shortened]... ss evolve? And where did it all start then?

    Infinite regress works both ways. Doesn't it?[/b]
    Now you're cooking with fire, Sherlock! Indeed, I never claimed to be able to explain the universe. I am content to whirl in place like a good cog and let the observable facts speak for themselves. I suspect that most people that dredge up evolution every time they need an ego-inflating punching bag do not have the slightest idea what the scientific method is - not a single solitary clue. No scientist believes in evolution in the same way that some people believe a tribe of wandering bronze-age con-artists knew the secrets of the universe. It doesn't make any sense to say that you 'believe in evolution' in that way. If observable facts stacked one on top of another pointed to the conclusion that all humankind developed from strawberry plants (as some human brains seem to indicate) then that would be the current conclusion. Science is just trying to understand the universe - not explain it. An open mind, a seeking spirit, a sense of humility, and a deep compassion can take you anywhere except certitude. An honest person must be able to live with uncertainty. They should be tolerant of others because honestly they know more about what they don't know than what they do. If you lose that feeling it can only be because you've lied to yourself.
  14. Standard memberWulebgr
    Angler
    River City
    Joined
    08 Dec '04
    Moves
    16907
    23 Aug '09 17:25
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]========================
    If a maker made the box then who made the maker -
    ==============================


    Now that's a good question ! WHO made the Maker ??

    Who made the maker?
    And who made the maker of that maker?
    And who made the maker of that maker?
    And who made the maker of the maker of the maker of the maker ?
    Etc ...[text shortened]... ss evolve? And where did it all start then?

    Infinite regress works both ways. Doesn't it?[/b]
    "Dreamers dreaming dreams of dreams dreaming dreamers."
    Charles Manson
  15. Standard memberWulebgr
    Angler
    River City
    Joined
    08 Dec '04
    Moves
    16907
    23 Aug '09 17:26
    Originally posted by jaywill
    I think that I heard that that book was not actually written. Rather it came flying out of the wreckage of a tornado that cut through a print factory in the Midwest 50 years ago. It was an accident.

    Apparently in the turmoil, some of the "chapters' randomly were blown together to appear to discuss something about the nonsense of Creationsim.
    a roomful of monkeys with typewriters?
Back to Top