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    05 Jul '13 22:37
    Just a few scriptures on the "holy spirit" to help understand what it is:

    Job 33:4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    4 “The Spirit of God has made me,
    And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

    We all know that God created humans. Here it states that God used his "spirit" or holy spirit to create man just as a human would use his hands to mold a clay pot.



    Matthew 1:18 Good News Translation (GNT)

    The Birth of Jesus Christ

    18 This was how the birth of Jesus Christ took place. His mother Mary was engaged to Joseph, but before they were married, she found out that she was going to have a baby by the Holy Spirit.

    So is the "holy spirit" the Father of Jesus or is God the Father of Jesus? Well first Jesus is not his own father and all the scriptures say the father is "God" not the holy spirit, ever.
    So this holy spirit was simply God using his "force or will" to use Mary as Jesus's earthly mother.




    Luke 1:35 Good News Translation (GNT)

    35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and God's power will rest upon you. For this reason the holy child will be called the Son of God.

    Here it is so clear that God uses his "power" or "holy spirit" to have Mary become pregnant with Jesus.
    And Jesus is called the "son of God" not the son of God and the holy spirit, ever.
  2. Standard membersonship
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    05 Jul '13 22:572 edits
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Just a few scriptures on the "holy spirit" to help understand what it is:

    Job 33:4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    4 “The Spirit of God has made me,
    And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

    We all know that God created humans. Here it states that God used his "spirit" or holy spirit to create man just as a human would use his hands to mold a clay pot.


    So are you saying that every human being ever created had or has the Holy Spirit within them ?

    If that was the case why did Jesus tell His disciples after the resurrection "Receive the Holy Spirit" (John 20:22) ?

    Why would He tell them to receive something that they already possessed by way of them being created in the first place ?
  3. Joined
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    05 Jul '13 23:18
    I don't think I said that anywhere in that post.
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    05 Jul '13 23:301 edit
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Just a few scriptures on the "holy spirit" to help understand what it is:

    Job 33:4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    4 “The Spirit of God has made me,
    And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

    We all know that God created humans. Here it states that God used his "spirit" or holy spirit to create man just as a human would use his hands Jesus is called the "son of God" not the son of God and the holy spirit, ever.
    Job 33:4
    4 “The Spirit of God has made me,
    And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

    "We all know that God created humans. Here it states that God used his "spirit" or holy spirit to create man just as a human would use his hands to mold a clay pot."

    Can't you see your blundering error galveston? That verse DOES NOT say that "God used" His Spirit to creat man. It very clearly says that the Spirit CREATE the man.

    Learn to read old man! The rest of you too.
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    05 Jul '13 23:331 edit
    Originally posted by galveston75
    I don't think I said that anywhere in that post.
    Okay. I accept that. See I'm reasonable.

    But the life that the Spirit of God (Old Testament style) gives to every man, in him being created is not the same Divine ZOE life that is imparted to the Christian by Christ in the born anew experience.

    For Christ to give life is for Christ to give HIMSELF.

    For He is the life and He became a "life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) .

    For God to give man divine life today is for God to give Jesus Christ Himself TO a person's innermost being.

    You Jehovah's Witnesses seem only to count the giving of life to be the resurrection of the physical body. But that is only the last stage of God's salvation giving life to the saved.

    First He gives life to your innermost kernel of your being, your human spirit.

    " ... and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6)

    For the human spirit to be born anew is for Christ to be given TO your spirit. And therefore Paul writes -

    "The Lord be WITH your spirit" (2 Tim. 4:22)

    "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit" (Philemon 25)

    "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit" (Philippians 4:23)

    "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers. Amen" (Galatians 6:18)


    Man needs to be forgiven so that Christ the Lord may be imparted into his spirit. Man needs redemption so that he may be born again and the Lord Jesus Christ may be with his spirit.

    A woman needs to be born anew that the her human spirit may be born of the Holy Spirit. Then the Lord is with her spirit. And the grace of the Lord, the enjoyment of the Lord as our life can be with her spirit.

    Why did Russell teach that Christ's invisible presence was only started in 1918 or some such date or revised date ?

    Christ invisible presence has been for the last 2,000 some years in the earth as Christ has been dispensed into the human spirits of all those born anew. He for all these centuries has been WITH the spirits of His redeemed people.
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    05 Jul '13 23:50
    Originally posted by sonship
    Okay. I accept that. See I'm reasonable.

    But the life that the Spirit of God (Old Testament style) gives to every man, in him being created is not the same Divine ZOE life that is imparted to the Christian by Christ in the born anew experience.

    For Christ to give life is for Christ to give [b] HIMSELF.


    For He is the life and He became a [ ...[text shortened]... w. He for all these centuries has been WITH the spirits of His redeemed people.[/b]
    Sorry but I have no idea what all this stuff your posting has to do the the thread....
    If you could simply comment on those three scriptures and explain why the holy spirit is not God's own force or power that would be great....
  7. Standard memberRJHinds
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    06 Jul '13 05:331 edit
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Just a few scriptures on the "holy spirit" to help understand what it is:

    Job 33:4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    4 “The Spirit of God has made me,
    And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

    We all know that God created humans. Here it states that God used his "spirit" or holy spirit to create man just as a human would use his hands Jesus is called the "son of God" not the son of God and the holy spirit, ever.
    THE SPIRIT OF GOD A.K.A. THE HOLY SPIRIT IN THE CREATION OF MAN:

    Job 33:4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    4 “The Spirit of God has made me,
    And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.


    THE SPIRIT OF GOD A.K.A. HOLY SPIRIT IN CREATION OF HEAVEN AND EARTH:

    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

    Genesis 1:1-2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    THE WORD A.K.A. THE SON SPEAKING TO THE OTHERS OF THE TRIUNE GOD:

    Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness.."

    God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.


    Genesis 1:26 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    THE WORD A.K.A THE SON IN CREATION OF ALL THINGS:

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

    And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.


    John 1:1-3, 14 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    THE FATHER, THE INVISIBLE GOD -- THE SON, THE VISIBLE GOD AND CREATOR

    ...giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light.

    For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

    He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.


    Colossians 1:12-16 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    A DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE HOLY SPIRIT AND POWER REVEALED:

    ...God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power...

    Acts 10:38 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

    Luke 1:35 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    THE TWO ABOVE VERSES CLEARLY REVEALS THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT THE POWER OF GOD. OTHER VERSES SHOW THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A PERSON SENT BY THE FATHER AND NOT HIS POWER.
    FOR EXAMPLE:

    I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

    But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.


    John 14:16-17, 26 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Glory be to God! Holy! Holy! Holy!

    The Instructor
  8. Joined
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    06 Jul '13 05:36
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    THE SPIRIT OF GOD A.K.A. THE HOLY SPIRIT IN THE CREATION OF MAN:

    Job 33:4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    4 “The Spirit of God has made me,
    And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.


    THE SPIRIT OF GOD A.K.A. HOLY SPIRIT IN CREATION OF HEAVEN AND EARTH:

    [b]In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless a ...[text shortened]... (NASB)

    HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Glory be to God! Holy! Holy! Holy!

    The Instructor
    Oh my.....How can you quote these scriture when they say nothing about the holy spirit being nothing other then God's own power or force?
    Actually I do understand completely how it happens but it still amazes me...
  9. Standard memberRJHinds
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    06 Jul '13 06:00
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Oh my.....How can you quote these scriture when they say nothing about the holy spirit being nothing other then God's own power or force?
    Actually I do understand completely how it happens but it still amazes me...
    If you would actually read the verses and use some logic, you should be able to see that it does NOT say that the Holy Spirit is God's own power.

    In fact, it denotes a difference in the Holy Spirit and God's power. If they were the same then there is no need to say that God annointed Him (Jesus) with the Holy Spirit and with power. Note that it says AND with power. If the Holy Spirit was the same as power there would be no reason to state Jesus was annointed with BOTH the Holy Spirit AND with power.

    Also how can Jesus refer to the Holy Spirit as ANOTHER HELPER that will teach them if it He is God's Power and not ANOTHER PERSON?

    The Instructor
  10. Standard memberKellyJay
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    06 Jul '13 10:00
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    If you would actually read the verses and use some logic, you should be able to see that it does NOT say that the Holy Spirit is God's own power.

    In fact, it denotes a difference in the Holy Spirit and God's power. If they were the same then there is no need to say that God annointed Him (Jesus) with the Holy Spirit and with power. Note that it says AND ...[text shortened]... HELPER that will teach them if it He is God's Power and not ANOTHER PERSON?

    The Instructor
    You need to recall what scripture teaches, the only people who will grasp
    the things of God will be those with God's Spirit, to those that do not have
    God's Spirit it is foolishness. Why be surprised that God's Word is true, the
    flesh understands the things of the flesh, and if you not walking with God
    now you will never get the things of God even if they are spelled out right
    in front of you.
    Kelly
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    06 Jul '13 10:50
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Sorry but I have no idea what all this stuff your posting has to do the the thread....
    If you could simply comment on those three scriptures and explain why the holy spirit is not God's own force or power that would be great....
    Your error lies in assuming that just because a person displays force it must be only a force and not a person.

    You can talk about "Spirit of God = a force, a force, a force" all you wish. So what ?

    The Holy Spirit is God Himself who includes MANY different enfluences He can initiate, ONE of which is being forceful.
  12. Standard membersonship
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    06 Jul '13 11:023 edits
    Galveston and Robbie are the masters of Argument by Amnesia -i.e. " It was just never explained to me 10 times over the last five years. I don't remember any answer given."


    The Father is a Person ~ intellect: Matt 6:32; emotion: Gen 6:6; will: Matt 6:9-10

    The Son is a Person ~ intellect: John 2:25; emotion: John 11:35; will: John 6:38

    The Holy Spirit is a Person ~ intellect: John 14:26; emotion: Eph 4:30; will: I Cor 12:11
  13. Joined
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    06 Jul '13 13:00
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    If you would actually read the verses and use some logic, you should be able to see that it does NOT say that the Holy Spirit is God's own power.

    In fact, it denotes a difference in the Holy Spirit and God's power. If they were the same then there is no need to say that God annointed Him (Jesus) with the Holy Spirit and with power. Note that it says AND ...[text shortened]... HELPER that will teach them if it He is God's Power and not ANOTHER PERSON?

    The Instructor
    Don't go with the rude remarks as it does not help your case....

    And I have read those verses many, many times in my life and know exactly what they do and don't say.

    Again you can take them for what you want and put them into you belief and if that is fine for you, so be it.
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    06 Jul '13 13:031 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    Your error lies in assuming that just because a person displays force it must be only a force and not a person.

    You can talk about "Spirit of God = a force, a force, a force" all you wish. So what ?

    The Holy Spirit is God Himself who includes MANY different enfluences He can initiate, ONE of which is being forceful.
    "The Holy Spirit is God Himself" Yes it is and that's all it is. But some how with the trinity it takes on a whole new level that the bible never speaks of.

    Now if anyone could comment on those scriptures I posted, that would be awesome.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    06 Jul '13 17:22
    Originally posted by galveston75
    "The Holy Spirit is God Himself" Yes it is and that's all it is. But some how with the trinity it takes on a whole new level that the bible never speaks of.

    Now if anyone could comment on those scriptures I posted, that would be awesome.
    You got amnesia again. That was what I have been commenting on by using other scripture verses to support my comments. WAKE UP!

    The Instructor
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