@sonship saidActually, what I think you were trying was a kind of inverted false modesty or inverted virtue signalling. It is a rhetorical gimmick you have tried many times before, and what you "confess" doesn't matter much, and it doesn't even have to be true. It's just a gimmick you've used repeatedly. lemon lime used to use it too. I don't think there's anything "sick" about calling you out for it.
Isn't this rather sick? Don't look now but plenty of people of God fell on occasion.
First, you claim your own moral compass has been replaced. You also claim "Another life [i.e. Jesus] has been supernaturally dispensed into my being." And now you're talking about something different: "training"?
Sure - training.
The grace of God is TRAINING.
The grace of God is God Himself imparted into you to be everything you need.
It takes time to learn that He can be everything to you in Christ that you need.
It is not so much as replacement as it is being like grafted into Someone else.
The branches abiding in the true vine are more like GRAFTED into that vine.
When Paul says "It is no longer I that live" it is not that he has been replaced so much as he is now mingled with another - Christ the practical grace of God.
FMF you may concoct all the clever gotcha questions you can invent.
This way of living in Christ supernaturally is superior to anything you offer us.
Now a couple of relevant axioms from the Old Testament:
For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again, But the wicked stumble in time of calamity. For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again, But the wicked stumble in time of disaster and collapse. Though a righteous person falls seven times, he will get up, but the wicked will stumble into ruin.
(Prov. 24:16)
The godly man falls and gets up again.
You want me to grovel and stay down.
The path of righteousness is like the ever increasing dawning of the sun.
This is not exclusively my boast. It is the norm for all those who desire to live in the Holy Spirit leaving the OLD manner of living for the new.
"The path of the righteous is like the light of dawn, shining brighter and brighter until midday. The way of the good person is like the light of dawn. It grows brighter and brighter until it is full daylight. The path of the righteous is like the light of dawn that grows brighter until the full light of day." (Prov. 4:18)
@sonship saidThey are not particularly "clever" questions. They are not "concocted". They are very linear. You claim something. I ask about it. They only seem to be "gotcha" in your mind because they have you dancing around and deflecting pridefully.
FMF you may concoct all the clever gotcha questions you can invent.
@fmf saidI have to go to bed.
I get why a Christian might "sin". What I don't get is why a Christian would be a willing follower of "Satan".
BIRTH is a beginning of the process of growth and maturity.
New Birth in Jesus Christ is the beginning of the process of growth and maturity - meaning learning to live no longer the OLD way and instead learn the new way.
Actually it is quite logical.
"You were a Christian. You weren't suppose to steal from your friend."
No argument there.
When the Christian falls he confesses, takes the blood of to cleanse him from unrighteousness, AND most importantly turns over another area of his heart over to Christ.
If he does not confess his conscience can become so soiled and darkened that faith leaks away. Christ will never leave him. But he can become out of fellowship and backslidden.
One day he wakes up and returns to the Lord Jesus who is eager to restore the loving sweet fellowship they previously enjoyed.
Rebirth is the commencement of the training to learn to live a new way - in oneness with the indwelling Son of God.
@sonship saidDo I want you to "stay down"?
The godly man falls and gets up again.
You want me to grovel and stay down.
What on Earth are you on about?
If you have become a "godly man", sure, you might "sin" from time to time, but why in heaven's name would you be "a willing follower of "Satan"? Why would you be "willing" to do that have supposedly had your moral compass replaced by having had Jesus "supernaturally dispensed" into you?
@sonship saidThis is just evasive waffle. I am asking why a Christian would be a willing follower of "Satan" if, as you claim about yourself, your own moral compass has been replaced by Jesus. I mean, is Jesus sometimes inclined to be a willing follower of "Satan"? Is that what you're on about?
I have to go to bed.
BIRTH is a beginning of the process of growth and maturity.
New Birth in Jesus Christ is the beginning of the process of growth and maturity - meaning learning to live no longer the OLD way and instead learn the new way.
Actually it is quite logical.
"You were a Christian. You weren't suppose to steal from your friend."
No ...[text shortened]... commencement of the training to learn to live a new way - in oneness with the indwelling Son of God.
3 edits
@Kevin-Eleven
Kevin,
For your sake I address this question of Divegeester.
How do you reconcile 2 Corinthians 5:17 (and all the other scripture about new birth) into your BRAND NEW DOCTRINE that a person can be a follower of Jesus besides Satan?
The error of this thinking is:
He doesn't realize that Satan is working in man's flesh. That is EVERY man's flesh - whether he has not been put in Christ or whether he HAS been put in Christ.
"For I know that in me, that is in my flesh, nothing good dwells for to will is present with me, but to work out the good is not." (Rom. 7:18)
This is true BEFORE Paul became a Christian.
This is true NOW that Paul has become a Christian until the transfiguration of his body.
"Now then it is no longer I that work it out but sin that dwells in me." (v.17)
This is true before Paul was put in Christ.
It is true even after Paul was put in Christ.
This is not terminated by regeneration or transformation.
It is terminated in the redemption of the body or transfiguration. (Rom. 8:23; Phil. 3:20,21)
Divegeester is skating close to the Pentacostal Holiness error of "sinless perfection". In other words - because you are a Christian automatically you are incapable of further cooperation with the devil. Some groups that taught "sinless perfection" assumed believers could not succumb to sexual lust. So no healthy separation between males and females was adhered to. The result was much sexual sinning between Christians.
This has to be brief. Now it is true "So then if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old is passed away; behold, they have become new." (2 Cor. 5:17)
The spirit of man is regenerated. That is new. If the person learns to set the mind upon the spirit where the Spirit of Christ now dwells sanctification and transformation of the soul will occur. And victory over sin in the flesh can be learned.
"And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal boduies through his Spirit who indwells you. So then brothers, we are debtors not to the glesh to live according to the flesh;
For if you live according to the flesh you are about to die, but if you by the Spirit put to death the practices of the body, you will live." (Rom. 8:11-13)
You can see that the audience -Christians are in Christ, not debtors to the flesh, and have the benefit of the Holy Spirit indwelling them to enable them victory over the sin practicing flesh which is still associated with Satan.
It is a life of learning to utilize the indwelling Spirit of Christ to "put to death the practices of the body". The man "in Christ" is a new creation learning to engage the Holy Spirit to put to death his former practices of the body.
Divegeester said he read The Normal Christian Life by Watchman Nee. He should go back and read it again more prayerfully asking the Lord's help to better understand it.
@sonship saidI get why a Christian might "sin". I get why a Christian might be weak. I get why a Christian might be tempted by the "flesh". And so on.
Divegeester doesn't realize that Satan is working in man's flesh. That is EVERY man's flesh - whether he has not been put in Christ or whether he HAS been put in Christ.
What I don't get is why a follower of Christ would be a willing follower of "Satan".