1. SubscriberFMF
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    12 Apr '12 10:18
    Interesting 'Thought For The Day' podcast [4 mins] from BBC Radio 4, by Anglican priest Rev Lucy Winkett. Snippets:

    "In my role as an Anglican priest, I meet significant numbers of people who are on the cusp of leaving the church".

    "I met an NHS nurse recently who said it was a lot easier admitting she was gay than admitting she was a Christian".

    "These findings [in a report conducted by Demos, entitled "Those Who Do God, Do Good"] run counter to a public narrative that often attempts to make faith an entirely private matter."

    "Religion - at its best - cultivates trust and wisdom as part of the DNA of communities".

    Have a listen:

    http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/thought/thought_20120411-1040a.mp3

    Thoughts anyone?
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    12 Apr '12 11:03
    in my view, religious (as opposed to spirituality) would imply rigidity, zealotry, lack of freedom. almost a burden.

    god should be a reason for celebration instead of mourning. god would encourage growth instead of stagnation. speaking for christianity, jesus himself challanged a flawed, oppressive system and encouraged change.

    why then do some religious fanatics still cling to outdated notions? the reason is fear. fear of angering a supreme being that loves you over the most stupid of reasons. why would god care what is written in a biology book, even if the creationist story would in fact be correct? why would he care that a priest with a v@gina delivers his message of love instead of a priest with a pen1s?

    fear is not god. fear is not love. those that fear god are religious, those that love god are spiritual
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    12 Apr '12 11:04
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    in my view, religious (as opposed to spirituality) would imply rigidity, zealotry, lack of freedom. almost a burden.

    god should be a reason for celebration instead of mourning. god would encourage growth instead of stagnation. speaking for christianity, jesus himself challanged a flawed, oppressive system and encouraged change.

    why then do some reli ...[text shortened]... not god. fear is not love. those that fear god are religious, those that love god are spiritual
    Did you take a moment to listen to the podcast?
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    12 Apr '12 11:32
    Originally posted by FMF
    Did you take a moment to listen to the podcast?
    nope
    i am off topic here, just commenting on the title.

    i shouldn't youtube at work.
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    12 Apr '12 11:361 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Did you take a moment to listen to the podcast?
    Yes.

    And I disagreed with most of it.


    And the "Those Who Do God, Do Good" bit is both wrong and insulting.

    If 'doing god' made you 'good' then please explain all the atrocities performed in the name of various gods.
    Explain the persecution of people for not complying with any particular god.
    Explain how people 'doing god' supported slavery for so long.
    Explain how the more secular a country/region/city is the better it tends to score on social indicators like crime
    rates and poverty and disparity between rich and poor ect.

    It was Christian propaganda... nothing more.


    EDIT: It also missed the important question that trumps all of this.

    IS IT TRUE?.... Does god exist?

    The answer is no, all the rest is fluff.
  6. SubscriberFMF
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    12 Apr '12 11:401 edit
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    And the "Those Who Do God, Do Good" bit is both wrong and insulting.

    If 'doing god' made you 'good' then please explain all the atrocities performed in the name of various gods.
    Explain the persecution of people for not complying with any particular god.
    Explain how people 'doing god' supported slavery for so long.
    Explain how the more secular a co ...[text shortened]... of this.

    IS IT TRUE?.... Does god exist?

    The answer is no, all the rest is fluff.
    Your response bears almost no relation to the podcast's content.
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    12 Apr '12 11:44
    Originally posted by FMF
    Your response bears almost no relation to the podcast's content.
    You mean apart from the fact that I am responding to something she said in the podcast...
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    12 Apr '12 11:47
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    You mean apart from the fact that I am responding to something she said in the podcast...
    The podcast is about the findings of the report by Demos on the participation of religious people in civil society in the U.K.
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    12 Apr '12 11:49
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Explain how people 'doing god' supported slavery for so long.
    What does this have to do with the podcast (for instance)?
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    12 Apr '12 11:55
    Originally posted by FMF
    What does this have to do with the podcast (for instance)?
    The claim is that people who 'do god do good'.

    I responded by pointing out that this is blatantly not true.

    There is absolutely no doubt that some(many) people who 'do god' do indeed 'do good'
    but to claim that there is a causal relationship or that people who 'do god' always 'do good'
    is just utter nonsense.

    There are many instances both in the past and today where people who do god emphatically
    did not do good.

    Slavery is just one of the countless myriad of examples I could have given.
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    12 Apr '12 11:57
    Originally posted by FMF
    "I met an NHS nurse recently who said it was a lot easier admitting she was gay than admitting she was a Christian".
    Thats interesting. Usually it is the Christians who make admitting you are gay difficult. (and other religions).
  12. SubscriberFMF
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    12 Apr '12 11:57
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Slavery is just one of the countless myriad of examples I could have given.
    Who supports slavery in the U.K. right now? You reckon Demos turned a blind eye to support for slavery in its survey on civic participation?
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    12 Apr '12 12:002 edits
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    The claim is that people who 'do god do good'.

    I responded by pointing out that this is blatantly not true.

    There is absolutely no doubt that some(many) people who 'do god' do indeed 'do good'
    but to claim that there is a causal relationship or that people who 'do god' always 'do good'
    is just utter nonsense.

    There are many instances both in ...[text shortened]... o good.

    Slavery is just one of the countless myriad of examples I could have given.
    Why is it then that those of faith tend to give more of their time and money to helping the poor than those who are not of a faith?

    As for slavery, the Mosaic era was born to free slaves from Egypt. They then creaed the Sabbath as a day of rest for everyone. They also allowed for slaves to be freed after about 7 years of service. Granted, the Mosaic law did not erradicate slavery, but it was the beginning of the end for slavery. It was a clear deviation from the ancient world at that time where most men found themselves at the end of a whip.
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    12 Apr '12 12:02
    Originally posted by FMF
    Who supports slavery in the U.K. right now? You reckon Demos turned a blind eye to support for slavery in its survey on civic participation?
    You are missing the point.


    The claim was 'people who do god do good'. period.

    This claim is just plain wrong on the face of it.

    I pointed this out by citing examples of people who do god who did not do good.

    I could (and will if this carries on) mention the present day religious bigotry against
    homosexuals and gay marriage.

    But whether it is something they are doing badly now or in the past the fact remains
    that many people who do god have not done good.
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    12 Apr '12 12:033 edits
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    The claim is that people who 'do god do good'.

    I responded by pointing out that this is blatantly not true.

    There is absolutely no doubt that some(many) people who 'do god' do indeed 'do good'
    but to claim that there is a causal relationship or that people who 'do god' always 'do good'
    is just utter nonsense.

    There are many instances both in ...[text shortened]... o good.

    Slavery is just one of the countless myriad of examples I could have given.
    By 1783, an anti-slavery movement was beginning among the British public. That
    year the first British abolitionist organization was founded by a group of Quakers.

    Bartolomé de las Casas was a 16th-century Spanish Dominican priest, the first
    resident Bishop of Chiapas, who as a settler in the New World witnessed, and was
    driven to oppose, the poor treatment of the Native Americans by the Spanish
    colonists and advocated before King Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor on behalf of
    rights for the natives. Originally having proposed to replace the slave labor of the
    natives with the importation of slaves from Africa, he eventually recanted this stance
    as well, and became an advocate for the Africans in the colonies.[18][19] His book,
    A Short Account of the Destruction of the Indies, is largely responsible for the
    passage of the new Spanish colonial laws known as the New Laws of 1542, which
    abolished native slavery for the first time in European colonial history and ultimately
    led to the Valladolid debate.

    The first American movement to abolish slavery came in April 1688 when German
    and Dutch Quakers
    of Mennonite descent in Germantown, Pennsylvania (now part of
    Philadelphia) wrote a two-page condemnation of the practice and sent it to the
    governing bodies of their Quaker church, the Society of Friends.

    After 1776, Quaker and Moravian advocates helped persuade numerous
    slaveholders in the Upper South to free their slaves.

    The Second Great Awakening of the 1820s and 1830s in religion inspired groups that
    undertook many types of social reform
    . For some that meant the immediate
    abolition of slavery because it was a sin to hold slaves and a sin to tolerate slavery

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolitionism

    clearly you need a history lesson.
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